Finally gonna rebuild my ZF-5!

[The_Josh_Bear]

The goober that went through this before I bought it put this input seal in backwards on the t-case. That's why I had a 1/2 pint of ATF pour out when I separated the units!

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The problem is that there is a shoulder on this seal, now on the inside of the housing. I can't pull it out, there's a snap ring behind it and a bearing pressed into the case behind it. I guess the guy put the bearing on, snap ring, and then beat the bearing into the housing using the shaft?! I am at a loss for words here...

 

[XOLATEM]

pilot bearing rollers from the LuK kit were literally turned into dust..

I never trusted the grease that bearings and u-joints come with...best I could guess is that it was only good for keeping the parts from rusting on the shelf...

I would always clean them out and use a good moly grease.

I do agree with making sure the bearings are a good brand and not using chinese or...back in the day when they first came around after 1989...romainian bearings...

that lesson cost me dearly at least once...

My vendors would complain that I must be the pickiest customer they ever had...I would nod and say..."yeah.."

Admittedly...the throwout bearing is another story...that and any metal-shielded bearing you gotta make sure you are using a good one...

I'm impressed by ZF, that's for sure.

I agree...they are nice, big, beautiful units...

I'm starting on the t-case now!

Jeez...I hope you don't wind up building a frankenunit by getting trans and transfer case parts mixed up..!!

 

[KansasIDI]

On a side note, many of you are probably aware that the ZF6 transmissions are equipped with a pump and a cooler. I honestly wish that Ford did the same with the ZF5, they too get very very hot… pulling heavy in 5th can get the temps up around 280… yeah… use good clean synthetic fluid in them, they take a ton of abuse. ‘You shouldn’t pull in 5th’ is more about excessive heat than too much torque… but torque creates heat. Excessive heat can and will kill any part of a vehicle.



At this point I think I’m just gonna add a cooler to every fluid on my truck. Good grief.

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

Turns out the rebuilder of this t-case wasn't a goober...just used a shoulder-less seal on that shaft. So I could dig it out and get on with the rebuild.

I stayed up late but got to the point that I'm ready to seal it up when I have the time to wait for the RTV to set for an hour then torque. Whoohoo!

I'm the type to play with the linkages before re-assembly, for fun and also to make sure it's correct. Good thing I did! The 2wd/4x4/neutral shift disc can be put in up-side-down, and *this guy* did just that.
Now she's ready for re-assembly, etc. If I'd had Permatex Right Stuff I wouldn't have to hit the pause button... but oh well. Gotta go take care of family stuff.

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

On a side note, many of you are probably aware that the ZF6 transmissions are equipped with a pump and a cooler. I honestly wish that Ford did the same with the ZF5, they too get very very hot… pulling heavy in 5th can get the temps up around 280… yeah… use good clean synthetic fluid in them, they take a ton of abuse. ‘You shouldn’t pull in 5th’ is more about excessive heat than too much torque… but torque creates heat. Excessive heat can and will kill any part of a vehicle.



At this point I think I’m just gonna add a cooler to every fluid on my truck. Good grief.

You have a temp sender on your manual trans? How heavy are you with those kind of temps?!? Cause that's nuts. 280 is so high it's hard to believe.

Over the years I've towed in 5th as often as I can. If it were eating up bearings or such I'd have seen the damage. Thankfully it was pretty darn clean inside, I'll definitely continue to use 5th as I please.
Granted, I'm only towing 4.5k nominally and with my camper and trailer that would be around almost 7k besides the pickup. But I only towed them both a few times over the years.

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

I never trusted the grease that bearings and u-joints come with...best I could guess is that it was only good for keeping the parts from rusting on the shelf...

I would always clean them out and use a good moly grease.

I do agree with making sure the bearings are a good brand and not using chinese or...back in the day when they first came around after 1989...romainian bearings...

that lesson cost me dearly at least once...

My vendors would complain that I must be the pickiest customer they ever had...I would nod and say..."yeah.."

Admittedly...the throwout bearing is another story...that and any metal-shielded bearing you gotta make sure you are using a good one...


I agree...they are nice, big, beautiful units...

Jeez...I hope you don't wind up building a frankenunit by getting trans and transfer case parts mixed up..!!

Thanks for the reminder! I just cleaned out and packed the pilot with my favorite high temp moly.

No Frankenunits here! BW and ZF don't have ANY interchangeable parts that I could see, except the PTO covers. Which was handy since my trans came with 2 gaskets I didn't use, and my t-case didn't come with one and I needed it! Saves the RTV annoyance.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

How heavy are you with those kind of temps?!?

He's driving a Fsuperduty with a utility bed on the back that I assume is pretty full of tools, Etc.

 

[KansasIDI]

He's driving a Fsuperduty with a utility bed on the back that I assume is pretty full of tools, Etc.

Pulling a 18k lb trailer in summer I have seen 310 on the tranny. Gauge stops at 320 yeesh

Truck weighs ~16k loaded with tools

250-260 is usually where it sits, fully warmed up no trailer at steady 65 mph

Rear diff usually stays at 160-170, can get 190 with a trailer on the interstate

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

I finally got these bad boys into order.

I took the leap of faith and installed the spacer, baffle, and race all together and checked pre-load. It was actually a bit *tight*, which I wasn't expecting. Then I remembered I'd slathered up the bearings with the assemblee goo and it is so tacky and thick it would interfere. So I tapped the shaft down a bit with a hammer and then checked clearance again and it was about 0.001". Minimum is 0.00079"; that puts me on the tight side of spec with the tacky goo so I'm quite happy with that.

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So pretty!

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

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PSA: Don't use the stock LuK pilot or throw-out bearings!
My pilot bearing was literally dust when I got to it. As for the TOB, you can see the craftsmanship and quality differences in the SKF(left) and whatever LuK uses on the right. You can also see the damage to my shift fork from the off-brand TOB. My TOB isn't seized or screaming, and I only had a little squeak from time to time so this wasn't abused.

The SKF weighs about double as well.

While we are here, anybody got the stock thickness of a LuK fiction disc or the minimum spec? I think I'm fine but I'd like to know.

 

[Nero]

Man thats crazy.. I wonder why/when they started going to a cheap throw out bearing. I used the throw out bearing included in the kit when I converted mine from dmf to SMF, but this was also back in 2013. Has been fine since then.

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

Man thats crazy.. I wonder why/when they started going to a cheap throw out bearing. I used the throw out bearing included in the kit when I converted mine from dmf to SMF, but this was also back in 2013. Has been fine since then.

I converted about 10 years ago, and used what was in the kit. Keep in mind I only put 60k, maybe 80k at most on it in those 10 years.

I remember buying these SKF bearings a few years ago and wasn't happy with the price, but I'm happy they were on the shelf! And I bet today's prices would be worse anyhow.

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

So after spending way too much time goofing around with the tail housing, i came up with this contraption to secure the whole thing to the mount even though I have a broken eye.
I ground it smooth to try and fix it using Aluma-weld brazing rods, but they suck so bad.

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Onto the real fix:

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It's just 3/8 all thread cause that's what I had. I welded a tab onto the mount so it wouldn't collapse or walk off the ear. I could put good torque on it. The top bar is 1/2" square tube, plenty of strength and I welded a plate under it to spread the load, but didn't put a lot of torque on the upper bolts. I wanted to add strength to the whole contraption but not stress the upper webbing. I think this is a good balance. Heater hose to keep from rubbing through.
This ear has been broken off for decades so it's all better from here.

I welded up and ground the clutch fork nice and square:

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[The_Josh_Bear]

Oh man. I had put the trans together before the t-case, but after finishing t-case I had a part left over...

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Besides feeling terribly stupid, I also don't know for sure what it came out of. At this point I'm leaning heavily towards the T-case, which will be much preferred to breaking down the trans again. But there are only 4 snap rings in the t-case, and I'm pretty sure I got them all, 2 inside type and 2 outside type. Gah, SO FRUSTRATING.

On the transmission I remember seating all the bearings and main synchro rings fully, and the end play is perfect so that gives me hope it's not the transmission. But I'll go back through the install PDF to see if I can find anything that jumps out at me.

Neither rebuild kit came with new snap rings, so it's not an extra. Sigh.
Add to all that the fact that I mounted the ZF today, then found that snap ring and remembered I messed up.

 

[ROCK HARVEY]

That looks to me like the one that holds the output shaft bearing in place. Hopefully so, because that would mean you only have to remove the tail housing and not split the whole case.