Finally gonna rebuild my ZF-5!

[The_Josh_Bear]

I jack the truck up enough so that the transmission will clear the frame.
On another subject, how's the quality of the Yeswelder stuff? I've seen their ads, but I haven't looked into buying anything yet. I've been skeptical.

I haven't used it yet, but they seem to be what I would call, "upper end Chinesium". It's still the cheap seats, but they suck the least.

I actually would have gone with an entry level Lincoln or Hobart/Miller but the darn weld/grind switch is on the INSIDE of the hood, and too small for a gloved hand to actuate. So I went with this one that has the "true color" and exterior knobs/switches. I'll try to update later when I use it more.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I haven't used it yet, but they seem to be what I would call, "upper end Chinesium". It's still the cheap seats, but they suck the least.

That's about what I thought. Maybe ok for a while, but plan on buying better stuff in the future.

I actually would have gone with an entry level Lincoln or Hobart/Miller but the darn weld/grind switch is on the INSIDE of the hood, and too small for a gloved hand to actuate.

I bought a welder on a "scratch and dent" sale several years ago. It needs a gun and a power cord so I was thinking about trying them out just to see if the thing even works. Of course my garage has a welder plug, but that was unwired and then used to power my air compressor. I would need to have ran back to that plug. Naturally, my breaker box is full because it isn't that big. Then I'd most likely have to have a higher amp feed run into my garage from the power pole. Overall, I've been spending money on other things, AKA dragging my feet.

 

[Nero]

You savage!

I could never do that with arms only, but the old straddle plus knees and both arms technique has been used in the past. Works fine as long as you find the sweet spot before dropping that POS on your ribcage. But I'm assuming it'll be wet out here when I reinstall, so I'm trying to keep my back off the ground.

I didnt learn to work smarter until late into my wrenching career. Been professionally wrenching for 11 years, doing it for funsies for 4 years prior. Finally learning to sloooooowww doooowwwnnn and also use proper lifting tools.

Another way that's been suggested before is to use a cherry picker through the trans shifter hole in the floor. Never tried it but makes sense.

 

[Old Goat]

Last Oct of 23 I replaced the Clutch on the 86, and to drop the T-19
Transmission. I have a Hein Werner air powered Bumper Jack,
like the one in the YT Vid.

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Note: need something bigger than a 20 Gallon Compressor.

Worked great, pull out the 2 arms, raise it up, placed a 4x4 across
it so it lifted on the end of the 2 frame rails.
I have several of the original white steel rims these trucks came with. Set one on the ground with a 14" on top so the front wheels
can set on them or as a back up. makes it very stable.
This way you get the truck high enough so the Trans Jack with the Trans on it to roll out from under the truck.

You can also place the rear tires on a set of Rims. I got it too high
and had to readjust the heighth of the truck, had it too high for
the Jack to reach the Transmission.
I have a HF 800 lb or something like that, got it off CL for $85,
guy used it once for his Toyota, killer deal.

I wish the plate was bigger, and the 2 adjusters worked better.
The plate is a little woobly.
They give you a chain to go over the trans to hold it, a ratchet
strap would be safer with a 150 lb trans balanced on it.
Rolls around good and the pump handle worked great.
Bunch of reviews on these Jacks on YT.

Here is a Google search on the Hein Werner Jacks

Google Search

Goat

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

So looking ahead to re-assembly, what are we using for shim kits? Everything seems to be NLA and after double-checking I realized that my rebuild kit didn't come with them. I'm not sure what's up with that... if you replace the bearings, don't you kinda have to replace the shims to get the right preload? I guess I figured a rebuilt kit would come with something like that.

Oh, AND the one shop that has them, it's $100 for a stack of shims. That's REDICULOUS.

Progress!

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[Nero]

Shims are reusable, try tossing them back in and see what you get. Might get lucky.

 

[XOLATEM]

Shims are reusable, try tossing them back in and see what you get. Might get lucky.

I agree with this as long as the shims did not get beat up from a bad bearing...

What I found is that...if you use good bearings...the dimension tolerances are spot-on...and...if (big if..) you are not replacing any other hard parts...(just bearings and seals...blocking rings don't count..) then the end play or bearing crush will be roughly the same as what it was when it was new...before any bearing wear...

Now...if you have to replace any case components...or if the bearing pockets in the case halves are worn, or otherwise beat up...now you really need to use a shim kit and measuring tools to get it right.

On mainshaft clearances...short (yeah...?) story...

On an '88 Firebird I fixed for a guy...came in with damaged front mainshaft bearing and input shaft from bad pilot bearing...built the unit (T-5) and did the clutch and put a roller pilot bearing in it after I had the tip of the mainshaft sleeved with a hard, bearing grade material...

I had set up the mainshaft bearing clearance fairly snug...there was about .003"-.004" preload...

The unit went at least a documented 200K miles...he came back after 100k to do another clutch and the trans was fine...and then later popped his head in every so often to give me an update on how long it was still running...

The guy eventually died and his son got the car and still came in occaisionally and gave me a report..lost touch sometime after 200k...

If you use good bearings, set your clearances well, use good oil, and know how to get long life out of a clutch, you will be good.

Just my .02

P.S. I just called one of my old vendors for standard parts...they don't have shim kits for a ZF...I'm shocked...hafta keep looking...

 

[ROCK HARVEY]

While you’ve got it apart, what diameter are the shims? I seem to remember hearing someone using shims from differential carrier bearings or pinion bearings, but I don’t remember which axle had the same sized shims as a zf-5

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

Shims are reusable, try tossing them back in and see what you get. Might get lucky.

I can appreciate that, but also don't want to get that far just to need them and wait another week or two for shipping. It wouldn't hurt me too badly, just trying to stay ahead of things for once!

I agree with this as long as the shims did not get beat up from a bad bearing...

What I found is that...if you use good bearings...the dimension tolerances are spot-on...and...if (big if..) you are not replacing any other hard parts...(just bearings and seals...blocking rings don't count..) then the end play or bearing crush will be roughly the same as what it was when it was new...before any bearing wear...

If you use good bearings, set your clearances well, use good oil, and know how to get long life out of a clutch, you will be good.

Just my .02

P.S. I just called one of my old vendors for standard parts...they don't have shim kits for a ZF...I'm shocked...hafta keep looking...

That's really good to hear. I feel like many people have rebuilt these but mentions of the shims are few and far between.
My bearings were in very good shape, I was pretty annoyed I had to trash them to get to the synchros. It's a real tribute to German engineering and proper MTL!
All SKF and Timken, too.

While you’ve got it apart, what diameter are the shims? I seem to remember hearing someone using shims from differential carrier bearings or pinion bearings, but I don’t remember which axle had the same sized shims as a zf-5

I'll get back to you, trying to figure out how to get under the front case main bearing now. It's so tight to the oil baffle... not sure what to do.

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

More progress! I took the day off since we had low work volume and I had extra vacation for the first time ever.
Main shaft finally clean!

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This is how I maintained pressure on the inside 3-jaw puller since it was too narrow to use the collar that comes with the slide hammer. It works awesome!
I used a tore up stomp rocket but anything foamy and springy would work. Rubber band to keep it together. This one was tough, took 14 hard hits before coming out, that's with holding it down and the strap.

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[The_Josh_Bear]

I just installed this 5th-reverse shift collar, with springs and such. I can't shift it by hand, but before the rebuild i could. I'm guessing it has to do with the assembly goo, which is quite thick, but I'm worried that it's not right. Thoughts? Never mind, see post #27. Doh.

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[The_Josh_Bear]

DOH...bone head alert...
So there's this little insignificant paragraph about how to align that shift ring...I skipped it, apparently. It explains how there are 3 spots where the teeth on the inside are ground down for the ball detent. See picture:

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So that means I got to jam those stupid balls back in again, and while they were easier, they still suck. After actuating the shift ring a couple times with 5th gear on, I pulled 5th to inspect something and lifted the shift ring again just back to neutral. But the springs and balls were SO HAPPY THAT I FIGURED IT OUT THEY ALL JUMPED ONTO THE FLOOR! Ugh, thank God I found all the bits, and got to put them all in, again.

I'm actually quite happy that I'm on the right track now, but I could have done without the ball detent part.

 

[Hagan]

Glad you got it figured out. It's funny because I came back to check which kit you ordered and come to find out you are starting to rebuild it.

Did you end up ordering the needle bearings separately? I noticed the kit you ordered does have them.

Are you using a manual to help you along the way?

 

[Old Goat]

But the springs and balls were SO HAPPY THAT I FIGURED IT OUT THEY ALL JUMPED ONTO THE FLOOR!

That`s funny right there...sort of.
Back around 1974 or 75 I was driving my 1 1/2 ton Cornbinder, and shifted into 3rd (4spd) and the shifter went all the way around
towards the dash. whadaef? well the top of the transmission where
the shift lever goes into the trans, is the little hole where the little pin fits to keep the shifter lined up. (The T-19 in my f-250 is same way.)
A piece broke out so there was nothing to hold the pin.
Bought a new top cover from International, and swapped parts over to the new cover. I didn`t have a garage, so out in the back yard on a work bench, Iam getting these little Poppet Balls/Springs in.
have the Bench next to the fence, (about 4ft high) and a cliff that dropped down about 40ft and the River. You guessed it, PING the
dang ball pop`s out right out, flyin through the air, right into the
middle of the River.

Back then Santa Cruz had all kinds of industrial supply places.
All that is gone now with the new age generation X, Y, Z or what ever they are, plus the University etc...
Guy mic the ball, and there closes one was 2Thousands larger.
Good enough. Worked on the Kitchen floor, must of popped out 6 times before getting them in. whadapita that was.
Think the truck had 200K on it, still have it.

Hang in there, you`ll get this 5 spd together.

Goat

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

Glad you got it figured out. It's funny because I came back to check which kit you ordered and come to find out you are starting to rebuild it.

Did you end up ordering the needle bearings separately? I noticed the kit you ordered does have them.

Are you using a manual to help you along the way?

Yes I found one online in PDF format that appears to be the actual Ford/ZF rebuild manual. It lists Rotunda part #'s and all that. Everything matches the OEM parts inside, and besides the spring detent installation has good details:

ZF-5 rebuild manual PDF
I found the link on FTE, post #6 here.