Timing cover crank seal problems

[kodiak98400]

Truck is my 92 in signature. Did a complete rebuild on motor 2 years ago. Truck runs great,no issues,never leaked a drop of oil after 10,000 miles. Then i noticed a puddle of oil under the front of motor. Pulled the balancer off and found the seal halfway out of the bore. Bought new seal and new balancer and tapped new seal in bore (used aviation form-a-gasket between seal and bore). Still leaked. Bought another seal and made a tool to press the seal in using the three nuts on the timing cover.

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Still leaked. Also noticed its leaking where the timing cover meets the oil pan now.(a result from trying to beat the first seal in). Bought another seal, pulled timing cover off, pressed new seal in, Still leaks. Now im thinking timing cover is damaged, bought new seal, replaced timing cover with a spare i had. Still leaks. Needed my truck so i put about 400 miles on this seal, pulled the balancer off last weekend and seal was about 1/8 of a inch out of the bore again.

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It will idle all day long and not leak a drop. It only happens at higher rpm's. I'm at a loss at what could be causing the seal to keep leaking and work it's way out of the bore. Hoping some of you guys can can tell me what to do next. (nothing else on the motor leaks, motor is extremely clean still after the rebuild) Thanks in advance. Gary

 

[Dirtleg]

I don't have an answer for why it's happening but if you want it to stay put use green loctite when you install it.

That is a standard method of seal installation on some harleys.

 

[Thewespaul]

I would say excessive crankcase pressure is pushing it out, do you have a road draft tube or the factory cdr?

 

[kodiak98400]

I would say excessive crankcase pressure is pushing it out, do you have a road draft tube or the factory cdr?

That was my thought too. Its a factory cdr on the banks sidewinder. I did a compression test. 400 was the lowest,480 highest. Going to do a leakdown test this weekend. I would think a lot of other places should be leaking also with high crankcase pressure.

 

[Thewespaul]

Yep you would expect that, maybe try pulling the oil fill cap off, wrapping it in a towel and driving it. If it doesn’t leak I’d say it’s definitely crankcase pressure related. If not, it may just need some locktite to hold it in place.

 

[kodiak98400]

Yep you would expect that, maybe try pulling the oil fill cap off, wrapping it in a towel and driving it. If it doesn’t leak I’d say it’s definitely crankcase pressure related. If not, it may just need some locktite to hold it in place.

I will try the towel trick. Seals number 2 & 3 never came out of the bore. Didn't drive it much because it leaked right away.

 

[kodiak98400]

Yep you would expect that, maybe try pulling the oil fill cap off, wrapping it in a towel and driving it. If it doesn’t leak I’d say it’s definitely crankcase pressure related. If not, it may just need some locktite to hold it in place.

That did the trick. No more leak out the seal. Time to tear it down and see whats causing the crankcase pressure.

 

[YJMike92]

If you have an excess of 400lbs of compression in each cylinder and not consuming oil I don't know if I'd pull the engine down yet. I would make sure the CDR valve is indeed venting properly. Another thought would be to rig a gauge at the oil fill and check to see how much pressure you actually have. Have you tried a different brand of a seal? Perhaps that brand is not a good fit for your truck.

 

[kodiak98400]

If you have an excess of 400lbs of compression in each cylinder and not consuming oil I don't know if I'd pull the engine down yet. I would make sure the CDR valve is indeed venting properly. Another thought would be to rig a gauge at the oil fill and check to see how much pressure you actually have. Have you tried a different brand of a seal? Perhaps that brand is not a good fit for your truck.

It did not consume oil before the leak. after that i have no idea if it was using oil. I'm not seeing any smoke so i doubt its the rings. I'm suspecting something with the heads. Still planning on doing a leakdown test before i tear into it. First 2 seals were SKF brand, then i tried Fel-Pro, then Mahle. I put a different CDR valve on and checked the line for restrictions. Good idea on a gauge at the oil fill, any idea what the pressure should be ?

 

[Tumbleweed210]

Is it possible that the part of the harmonic balancer that goes into the seal...has a slight groove worn into it? Like one that you'd need to use a dial caliper to 'see'?
Just thinking I saw some kinda sleeve kit (the phrase "problem solver" comes to mind) for that...seems to me that the difference between a seal and a leak for oil film, at x pressure, can be >>>Ppshhht>>> tens-or-less-thousandths of an itch.

 

[YJMike92]

It did not consume oil before the leak. after that i have no idea if it was using oil. I'm not seeing any smoke so i doubt its the rings. I'm suspecting something with the heads. Still planning on doing a leakdown test before i tear into it. First 2 seals were SKF brand, then i tried Fel-Pro, then Mahle. I put a different CDR valve on and checked the line for restrictions. Good idea on a gauge at the oil fill, any idea what the pressure should be ?

More then a couple of pounds would be too much. I would look for more of a neutral reading. How is the blow by while the oil cap is off? A leak down test would be a good idea.

 

[kodiak98400]

Is it possible that the part of the harmonic balancer that goes into the seal...has a slight groove worn into it? Like one that you'd need to use a dial caliper to 'see'?
Just thinking I saw some kinda sleeve kit (the phrase "problem solver" comes to mind) for that...seems to me that the difference between a seal and a leak for oil film, at x pressure, can be >>>Ppshhht>>> tens-or-less-thousandths of an itch.

It has a brand new balancer. I also modified a old balancer by sleeving it to duplicate the size of one with a speedy sleeve (.025 larger) to give the seal a little more bite.

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[kodiak98400]

More then a couple of pounds would be too much. I would look for more of a neutral reading. How is the blow by while the oil cap is off? A leak down test would be a good idea.

I have a video of the blowby. seems like a lot to me but im not sure what normal looks like.

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[rwk]

Check the run out on the new balancer maybe? the seal will compensate for some though, also the crank nose ok? no run out there maybe its tweaked just a little then at high RPM works the seal out? just guessing here.

 

[YJMike92]

I have a video of the blowby. seems like a lot to me but im not sure what normal looks like.

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The blow-by seems excessive in the video.