Doomsday Dually Project

[The_Josh_Bear]

You said the turbo was rebuilt by R&D, anything bigger and better? I see the compressor housing is Borg Warner but couldn't find what you did to it. IP is 110, stage 1 injectors. Unless the wastegate is opening at 6psi you should be hitting 20+. It's not a bad idea to check that exhaust! If it's a true 3" downpipe you could always just disconnect it at the end of that and run around a bit.

As for the IP adjustment, you're right that it shouldn't be running out of adjustment to get to 7* BTDC. However, 7* is pretty ideal for a turbo setup so at least you will have good power mpgs.
Along those lines, I'd be worried the IP gear is one tooth off. I've never installed an R&D cam but I seem to remember reading that sometimes people need to advance(?) the timing gear one tooth for his cam...sorry if you covered that already but I didn't go back through all the build pages.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Ehhh unfortunately it looks like the gauge is working fine. I hooked my air compressor up to the sensor with 20psi on it and it was reading fine.

Judging by the lack of black sooty smoke when I’m hitting the gas hard, you’re probably right.

Sucks that it’s a fresh rebuilt 110cc pump from CDD.

Another odd thing with this pump, is that I had to max out the advance on the pump to get the timing close. I’m still at 7 degrees BTDC at 2k rpm when spec is supposed to be 8.5 … and I thought normally if you can’t advance the pump enough, that’s a sign of a worn out pump.

Why don't you contact CDD and see what he has to say about it?

 

[Rdnck84_03]

Along those lines, I'd be worried the IP gear is one tooth off. I've

I was thinking the exact same thing after I read this part.

Another odd thing with this pump, is that I had to max out the advance on the pump to get the timing close. I’m still at 7 degrees BTDC at 2k rpm when spec is supposed to be 8.5 … and I thought normally if you can’t advance the pump enough, that’s a sign of a worn out pump.

Something definitely doesn't seem correct here.

Why don't you contact CDD and see what he has to say about it?

This would also be my recommendation.

James

 

[Lumberjackchuck]

Actually I don’t even know anymore, fired the truck up and the boost gauge is stuck at 17 psi! Here it is at idle in my driveway lol.

Might have to test this with a mechanical gauge. Boost might be fine

Also I really don’t think the gear is off by a tooth. And as for the cam, I installed it dot to dot because that’s what my degree wheel came in at. And Justin confirmed that advancing his cam a tooth is misinformation now since the new outfit that grinds his cams has them all coming out dot to dot.

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[Lumberjackchuck]

Why don't you contact CDD and see what he has to say about it?

I’d like to rule everything out before I go bothering them. I thought the gauge was working but now it’s not. Might try a mechanical setup to test it

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

Actually I don’t even know anymore, fired the truck up and the boost gauge is stuck at 17 psi! Here it is at idle in my driveway lol.

Might have to test this with a mechanical gauge. Boost might be fine

The ol' "I test good, but the joke is on you" gauge...those are the worst! Cold weather maybe.

Also I really don’t think the gear is off by a tooth. And as for the cam, I installed it dot to dot because that’s what my degree wheel came in at. And Justin confirmed that advancing his cam a tooth is misinformation now since the new outfit that grinds his cams has them all coming out dot to dot.

That's good to know, glad they've got things sorted! That info is definitely a few years old, just throwing out ideas.

But you definitely shouldn't run out of adjustment space for a brand new rebuilt IP. If it's not in the timing gears then it can only be two things: You think the IP is out of adjustment but really you just didn't loosen the injector lines, OR it's a bad rebuild. I can't think of anything else it could be... but I like your build and want to see it purr!

 

[Lumberjackchuck]

So I messed around with a number of things this morning, I took the boost sensor back out and cleaned it up, re-tightened all my clamps on the silicone boots, and locked out the waste gate.

What a difference! I’m getting about 11-12 psi on the gauge now when I really step on it. And my EGTs dropped quite a bit. So I wanna say that I really wasn’t producing boost before.

I also took it out earlier this week in the day light and was able to see that I was throwing some black clouds of smoke for an instant when I accelerated. I’m not blowing any smoke now though.

Still, I know you guys said that I should be getting like 20 psi. I’m going to upgrade the exhaust to 4” (I’m still using the factory 2.5” w/ muffler). So I ordered this kit which I’ll have to make some mods to hook up to my 3” down pipe.

Diamond Eye K4310A-RP Cat-Back Exhaust System https://a.co/d/25OCfGS

Also I was wondering if my boost could be low due to the size of my pipes and Intercooler. I did all 3” piping and 31”x12”x4” intercooler. Which is probably a little overkill for this small turbo. Maybe the turbo struggles to fill up all that space?

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[IDIBRONCO]

Also I was wondering if my boost could be low due to the size of my pipes and Intercooler. I did all 3” piping and 31”x12”x4” intercooler.

Those are probably part of it. An intercooler will drop your boost PSI due to the larger volume between it and the intake. Too big of an intercooler, which I believe yours is, will only make the lack of boost worse.

I’m not blowing any smoke now though.

Still, I know you guys said that I should be getting like 20 psi.

In order to get to the 20 PSI, you'll probably have to turn up your fuel some more.

 

[jwsfarrier]

Love your set up. Super clean. I have a similar set up but with the R&D intake and 4in exhaust. I had some questionable readings on my Glowshift gauges as well and switched over to Isspro. Made all the diifference. I was hitting 20+ for boost. I know some have had good luck with the Glowshift gauges. After the swap My EGT and boost numbers were more inline with what others have found with this set up. Good idea to run another boost gauge just to confirm. Exhaust could help as well.

 

[FrozenMerc]

Remember, Pressure is just resistance to flow, and you have two items working against you building a bunch of boost in that truck.

1. Your small, stock exhaust system creates high back pressure and limits the pressure drop across the turbo's turbine wheel, preventing it from operating at peak efficiency.

2. The large, free flowing intercooler does not offer enough resistance to build a bunch of pressure. Not a bad thing, and it would be interesting to put a mass air flow sensor, or some sort of air density meter, on that system and see how much the air density is increasing across both the turbo and intercooler. The cooler is probably doing more for you than the turbo at this point.

Don't get too hung up on the boost numbers. Maximize the air density (pressure + temperature). Think about it this way. Take 1 lb of air at 70 deg's and put it in a box with a pressure gauge. The air will have about 4 ounces of oxygen molecules in it (those are the good ones we want to mix with fuel to make power!) and the pressure gauge will read 0 psi (or 14.7 if you have an absolute gauge). If you heat that box up, the pressure gauge will start to read higher and higher values, but there are still only 4 ounces of oxygen in the box, even at 20 or 30 psi. The goal is to stuff another 1 lb or more of air into the box (so there is more oxygen available), with out heating the air up too much.

Turbo's are good at stuffing more air into the box, if set up properly. If not, they become very good at just heating the air up without actually increasing the density.

Banks wants your money....
https://bankspower.com/products/sensor-66420-any-vehicle-that-works-the-banks-idash-supergauge

 

[Lumberjackchuck]

@FrozenMerc very well and thoughtfully explained. Been a long time since I’ve taken thermodynamics but a lot of that knowledge has stuck with me. Was a mech-e in school but my job is in the electrical/power distribution and generation sector.

A mass airflow sensor would be pretty cool though I’d imagine it would have to be designed/calibrated to measure airflow in a 3” pipe for me to make it work. Not sure where I would find that.

I was also thinking about putting another boost gauge at the compressor housing since there was an 1/8” npt port for the waste gate hose which I plugged. So it would be an easy install and I’d be able to see the difference in boost before and after the Intercooler.

Needless to say, I’m very happy with the way the truck is performing now. I’ll report back with how the 4” exhaust works out, though I imagine it will help substantially.

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

So I messed around with a number of things this morning, I took the boost sensor back out and cleaned it up, re-tightened all my clamps on the silicone boots, and locked out the waste gate.

What a difference! I’m getting about 11-12 psi on the gauge now when I really step on it. And my EGTs dropped quite a bit. So I wanna say that I really wasn’t producing boost before.

Glad to hear it! It's always so frustrating when the power mods don't live up to expectations...but you get to unlock them through a little trial and error and that's a lot more fun. My setup and process was similar.

I also took it out earlier this week in the day light and was able to see that I was throwing some black clouds of smoke for an instant when I accelerated. I’m not blowing any smoke now though.

Still, I know you guys said that I should be getting like 20 psi. I’m going to upgrade the exhaust to 4” (I’m still using the factory 2.5” w/ muffler). So I ordered this kit which I’ll have to make some mods to hook up to my 3” down pipe.

Diamond Eye K4310A-RP Cat-Back Exhaust System https://a.co/d/25OCfGS

Can't see any smoke and low boost = need more fuel! I can't remember what IP you have... 110? That should put out plenty to be around 20psi on this setup. At least 17-18.
Not quite apples-to-apples, but I get 14-15psi on a maxed stock IP, stock 093 with a true 3" outlet and 3" exhaust, unhooked waste gate, and stock injectors. I also have a BHAF sucking in warm air under the hood, and the SAME CAC setup you have. See below.

Also I was wondering if my boost could be low due to the size of my pipes and Intercooler. I did all 3” piping and 31”x12”x4” intercooler. Which is probably a little overkill for this small turbo. Maybe the turbo struggles to fill up all that space?

I have the exact same CAC piping and exchanger as you do. It's not too big, it works great! I'm sure it's not as efficient as even the 7.3 PSD one but it does work well. It's by no means a hinderance. Your power will be much higher with it, and you might lose 1psi vs non-CAC. That's what I lost, just 1psi. But a much better charge density and therefore power/torque. EGTs calmed down as well. After any kind of driving I can pull over and the compressor side pipes will nearly burn my hand and the intake side is near ambient!

Remember, Pressure is just resistance to flow, and you have two items working against you building a bunch of boost in that truck.

1. Your small, stock exhaust system creates high back pressure and limits the pressure drop across the turbo's turbine wheel, preventing it from operating at peak efficiency.

2. The large, free flowing intercooler does not offer enough resistance to build a bunch of pressure. Not a bad thing, and it would be interesting to put a mass air flow sensor, or some sort of air density meter, on that system and see how much the air density is increasing across both the turbo and intercooler. The cooler is probably doing more for you than the turbo at this point.

Don't get too hung up on the boost numbers. Maximize the air density (pressure + temperature). Think about it this way. Take 1 lb of air at 70 deg's and put it in a box with a pressure gauge. The air will have about 4 ounces of oxygen molecules in it (those are the good ones we want to mix with fuel to make power!) and the pressure gauge will read 0 psi (or 14.7 if you have an absolute gauge). If you heat that box up, the pressure gauge will start to read higher and higher values, but there are still only 4 ounces of oxygen in the box, even at 20 or 30 psi. The goal is to stuff another 1 lb or more of air into the box (so there is more oxygen available), with out heating the air up too much.

Turbo's are good at stuffing more air into the box, if set up properly. If not, they become very good at just heating the air up without actually increasing the density.

Banks wants your money....
https://bankspower.com/products/sensor-66420-any-vehicle-that-works-the-banks-idash-supergauge

Pressure is resistance to flow, amen! Put another way, your more efficient turbo will be pushing more air with less losses to heat than mine, so for example we could both jump on a dyno and might have the same HP/TQ with me at 15psi and you at 12psi.

Well said, @FrozenMerc!!

 

[Black dawg]

Like already said, that intercooler and tubing isnt too big.

I have a small 085 turbo on my truck, with a 6.0 intercooler and big tubing. I did lose a slight bit of boost after adding the intercooler, but power went up pretty much everywhere.

 

[KansasIDI]

Remember, Pressure is just resistance to flow, and you have two items working against you building a bunch of boost in that truck.

1. Your small, stock exhaust system creates high back pressure and limits the pressure drop across the turbo's turbine wheel, preventing it from operating at peak efficiency.

2. The large, free flowing intercooler does not offer enough resistance to build a bunch of pressure. Not a bad thing, and it would be interesting to put a mass air flow sensor, or some sort of air density meter, on that system and see how much the air density is increasing across both the turbo and intercooler. The cooler is probably doing more for you than the turbo at this point.

Don't get too hung up on the boost numbers. Maximize the air density (pressure + temperature). Think about it this way. Take 1 lb of air at 70 deg's and put it in a box with a pressure gauge. The air will have about 4 ounces of oxygen molecules in it (those are the good ones we want to mix with fuel to make power!) and the pressure gauge will read 0 psi (or 14.7 if you have an absolute gauge). If you heat that box up, the pressure gauge will start to read higher and higher values, but there are still only 4 ounces of oxygen in the box, even at 20 or 30 psi. The goal is to stuff another 1 lb or more of air into the box (so there is more oxygen available), with out heating the air up too much.

Turbo's are good at stuffing more air into the box, if set up properly. If not, they become very good at just heating the air up without actually increasing the density.

Banks wants your money....
https://bankspower.com/products/sensor-66420-any-vehicle-that-works-the-banks-idash-supergauge

I have previously contemplated what it might take to set up one of those iDash gauges, fully laden with sensors. To effectively have a computer monitored, but not controlled, IDI. I feel much insight could be gained by knowing every temperature, and pressure, going into, within, going out of, and surrounding the engine. I am honestly a bit nosy, always like to know what’s going on, I am also one to wonder, and to worry… but there are questions and relations within the operation of these engines that I would love to know more about…

Looks like $2.5k for a sensor array would answer my questions…

 

[Lumberjackchuck]

Love your set up. Super clean. I have a similar set up but with the R&D intake and 4in exhaust. I had some questionable readings on my Glowshift gauges as well and switched over to Isspro. Made all the diifference. I was hitting 20+ for boost. I know some have had good luck with the Glowshift gauges. After the swap My EGT and boost numbers were more inline with what others have found with this set up. Good idea to run another boost gauge just to confirm. Exhaust could help as well.

Hate to say it but the maxtow/glow shift really have not been good. Boost has been in and out working, and after a month of driving the EGT just crapped out.

Ya try to cut some corners and save a few bucks and it just bites you in the ass. Looks like I’m gonna eat the cost and pay up for some better gauges.

@KansasIDI
I know how you feel. I like to have monitoring on everything, it really does drive you nuts sometimes not knowing. But it’s even worse when you have monitoring and the information you get is incorrect! Very hard to justify $2500 in gauges tho. Maybe when the US gov gives me some of my money back from overpaid taxes this year, I’ll put that towards some good gauges.

Also, I did finally get the 4” exhaust kit. Planning on installing it this weekend and I’ll hopefully get a video update/walk around on the truck. Will try to recap some lessons learned and regrets with the rebuild as a tribute to this community.