R&D stuff

Discussion in '6.9L IH & 7.3L IDI Diesels' started by Guffey6, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. AcIdBuRn02ZTS

    AcIdBuRn02ZTS Full Access Member

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    I'd be curious to see what the ford charger would do with the gate wired shut. I know it made a difference in a friends truck from just being unhooked to being anchored shut. The WG was being blown open by drive pressure fairly early and made response somewhat laggy. With it tied shut, the charger would light much faster and would produce more boost (obviously).

    In theory, the ATS/Ford charger is slightly larger then an HX35W holset. The hx35 is pretty efficient around 18-25psi and doesn't really become a big heat pump until over 30psi. So.. one would think that with the gate anchored shut or an adjustable boost controller on it.. running at 18-20psi, it would still be fairly efficient and would probably outperform the Banks. (again, I'm assuming the Banks size as I have no actual specs on the charger... I'd venture to say it's a good bit smaller then the Ford/ATS unit)

    Has anyone ever seen actual compressor maps for these chargers? Would be pretty easy to see how each would perform that way. Could also incorporate charge cooling and see the difference it would make (on paper anyways).
     
  2. pelky350

    pelky350 Full Access Member

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    I Know a mechanic at Brattain international and he said if the wastegate is unhooked it cannot/won't leak because without boost it will not open/operate. He's been working there for 20 years and I talked to him about my new turbo set up and ask him about if I even need to hook up my waste gate. Unless your trying to push over 30psi with a factory turbo the spring in the wastegate actuator is gonna hold it closed with little doubt that it would leak or open because of backpressure
     
  3. AcIdBuRn02ZTS

    AcIdBuRn02ZTS Full Access Member

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    Well, I know for a fact that drive pressure (exhaust pressure) will blow the waste gate open. The actuator when unhooked doesn't have much resistance to it. Drive pressure is typically a good bit higher then boost pressure until boost is fully established. 30+psi of drive pressure isnt uncommon.

    As a test... Do a hard pull with the gate unhooked... Then a hard pull with the gate anchored.

    From my understanding, most see a peak around 12 psi with it unhooked... But can see high teens with it anchored shut.
     
  4. Macrobb

    Macrobb Full Access Member

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    You are talking about with the boost line disconnected to the actuator, not the actuator disconnected from the wastegate, right?
     
  5. AcIdBuRn02ZTS

    AcIdBuRn02ZTS Full Access Member

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    Correct. The spring in the actuator can be overcome by drive pressure. That's why people see an increase in boost when they anchor the wg shut compared to just unhooking the reference line.
     
  6. FordGuy100

    FordGuy100 Registered User

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    Mine is unhooked and will boost 15+ easy.
     
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  7. pelky350

    pelky350 Full Access Member

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    Mine has no line to actuator, 15-20psi is easy to reach and could keep climbing but I let off throttle before going any higher
     
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  8. AcIdBuRn02ZTS

    AcIdBuRn02ZTS Full Access Member

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    Interesting.. both 093 chargers I've messed with, anchoring the gate made a noticeable difference.
     
  9. pelky350

    pelky350 Full Access Member

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    How do I wire it shut? I can try it this weekend and see if it does anything
     
  10. AcIdBuRn02ZTS

    AcIdBuRn02ZTS Full Access Member

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    We remove the actuator all together and use an eyelet and some all thread. All you'd have to do is wrap tie wire tight around the wg stud and the actuator.
     
  11. pelky350

    pelky350 Full Access Member

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    I'll try it tomorrow and see if any difference is made, I can make 10+ before 2000 rpms
    Right now so this is just to see if any difference is made I'm not wanting any more boost lol
     
  12. tjsea

    tjsea Full Access Member

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    Just so you guys know excessive drive pressure kills horsepower potential. I realise it will never be a 1:1 ratio to boost, but the idea is to attempt to get as close as possible. That's why it's important to properly size a turbo not only on the compressor side, but the exhaust side as well. Can restricting the hot side create more boost, absolutely! But you loose alot of efficiency and ultimately power potential by doing so.
     
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  13. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Yes. ^^^
     
  14. typ4

    typ4 Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    My dyno graph is on this site somewhere.
     
  15. Macrobb

    Macrobb Full Access Member

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    Found it!
    For anyone that's curious: BIG DYNO DAYS #'s
    There's Typ4's chart, I believe the two lines on there are Justin/R&D being the higher one and Typ4 being the slightly lower one.

    It's also interesting seeing how the curves end up - Looking at it, I'm seeing peak torque at 461ft-lbs at 2100, peak HP 'flat spot' around 2600-2800 at 218.

    Mine, I'm only making 350 ft-lbs at 2100, hitting peak torque of 453 at 2750 and peak HP 'flat spot' around 2700-3200 of 245, defueling around 3300...

    I'm guessing the much better low-end is due to the Typ4 cam? I *so* want to get it onto one of my setups and see what it does.
     

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