older mercedes td info?

[rthomas]

thinking about selling the wifes stupid grand cherockee and finding a older td benz, what to look for? what to avoid? i know nothing about these cars other than they have a good reputation. thanks in advance for your .02-russ

 

[mjstef]

I have had 2 81 300SD's They were great cars. Suspension on both was fair but could have used some bushings. The total kit was around 500$ Other than that no issues. You have to drive with the trans in 3rd in town or it won't shift into 1st gear at a stop sign. Both mine had over 300K on them......

 

[towcat]

I have a few of these mini-monsters in my inventory. Turbo'd Benzs will get out of their own way. The NA ones have a little of trouble getting going. At 200k, a valve adjustment by a tech who knows their stuff is highly reccomended. By 400k you might be looking at a injection pump. otherwise than that, oil changes on a religious schedule is a good idea. Oh yea, most of the time the interiors are starting to fall apart. Replacement interior parts are VERY spendy. If the car you are looking at buying has a poor interior, haggle hard or bepatient and you will find a decent one later on down the road.

 

[rthomas]

sounds like these are pretty good cars, im not to worried about perfection but as long as its reliable and economical, right now that jeep (v8) is killing her on gas, 14mpg and it needs 92 octain=$50 a week to commute

 

[towcat]

If your wife is like mime, once she gets used to the comforts of a MBZ, you're doomed. Lucky for me, diesel powered Jag's haven't hit these shores. If it did, I will undoubtly be staring at a payment book.
Oh yea, if you get a 240D, the mpg should be at 25-30. a 300D is a little better, but a 300SD will take a small hit but the room and additional startup power will make up for the MPG loss. if you can find yourself a CA car or a non-rustbelt car. Tinworms are the biggest killer on these cars.

 

[dave85]

There is...

thinking about selling the wifes stupid grand cherockee and finding a older td benz, what to look for? what to avoid? i know nothing about these cars other than they have a good reputation. thanks in advance for your .02-russ

a real good forum for these called www.mercedesshop.com. (IIRC)Kinda like the guys on here.
But, for a wife's car, be kinda leery. there are little electrical things that can frustrate you on a 20 yr old car. But the Cat is right, once they've had a Benz, it's "Let's look at new ones, honey"
dave

 

[rthomas]

im sure you guys are right, before we got that jeep she was more than happy drive one of the cutlass's, but now thats just unacceptable
if i can find a wagon thats in good shape but simple- limited power power options i think she'd be happy with that. if it doesnt have a/c, pdl,or pw that would be ideal.

 

[The Warden]

if i can find a wagon thats in good shape but simple- limited power power options i think she'd be happy with that. if it doesnt have a/c, pdl,or pw that would be ideal.

Unfortunately, those options are mutually-inclusive. M-B's had very few "options" in the traditional sense (the 240D is an exception to this; see below). Power door locks (actually operated by vacuum, and these were actually standard equipment on ALL cars), power windows (these are electric ), and air conditioning/automatic climate control were standard equipment on U.S. spec 300D's and 300TD's.

Real quick rundown on the models, since I don't think anyone else has really mentioned this in this thread, and it can get a bit confusing. Also take a look at the picture below, so you can match up the weird "W" numbers with the car type. These numbers are chassis numbers that M-B used. The W115 was sold in the U.S. up to 1976. The W123 was sold in the U.S. from 1977 until 1985. The W116 was sold in the U.S. with a diesel between '78 and '80, with the W126 being sold between 1981 and 1991 (but IMHO you should stick to '85 and older for various reasons mentioned below).

240D - Midsize sedan (predecessor to the modern-day E-class) with a 2.4l 4 cylinder n/a diesel. You could choose between a 4 speed manual and a 4 speed automatic transmission, and power windows, a/c, and sunroof (either manual or power) were options. This car was available from 1977 to 1983 in the 123 chassis, and for however many years in the 115 chassis.

300D - Same midsize sedan as the 240D, but with a 3.0l 5 cylinder diesel. '75 through '81 were naturally aspirated, with turbocharged 5 cylinders replacing the n/a engine betwen either late '81 or the beginning of '82 until '85. U.S. models were only available with an auto, but some Euro models with 4 speed manuals (or even 5 speeds, but these are rare as hens' teeth) made their way over here. A/C and the automatic climate control were standard, as were power windows and a power sunroof. '75 and '76 300D's are 115 chassis; '77-'85 300D's are 123's.

300TD - Same as the 300D, except being a wagon body. 300TD wagons also got a hydraulic self-leveling suspension that works really well, but gets real expensive to repair when things break. The "T" stands for "Touring", not "Turbo" Wagons, due to lower sales, are in more demand and thus generally cost more, especially if equipped with the third-row seat. I think they started offering the TD wagon in '78 or '79, and it was available up to the end of the 123 production run in '85.

300CD - Same as the W123 300D, except being a coupe body. Again, only available as a 123. These cars are rare finds.

300SD - Same general specifications as the 300D, except that ALL 300SD's have turbo 5 cyl's. Also, the 300SD is the full-size sedan (predecessor to the modern S-class), so you get a bit extra weight and a lot more room, along with miscellaneous luxury goodies. Things are also a bit more complex. '78 through '80 300SD's are on the 116 chassis; '81-'85 cars were on the 126 chassis. If you look at a 116 chassis, WATCH OUT FOR RUST!!! Even more so than the other M-B's, tinworms have a special affinity for the 116 chassis for whatever reason.

1985 was the last year for the cast-iron "million-mile" diesels. Diesels were offered in later model year cars (most notable 1987), but while these engines have more power and are more efficient, they do have an aluminum head on a cast-iron block, and are prone to head warpage if the head's original. The W126 was available in '90 and '91 as a 350SD, with a 3.5l inline-6. Many of these engines left the factory with defective conrods, and they would make the piston move and ultimately oval out the cylinder, junking the entire block.

I think that's about it...although I'm so dead-tired (one more paper to write!!!) that I may have missed something.

Hope this helps some, or at the very least doesn't confuse you more...good luck!!! BTW, my daily driver is an '85 300D that just turned over 270K miles. The interior's thrashed, the front suspension needs to be rebuilt, and the body's seen better days, but the drivetrain still works as though the car just rolled off the showroom floor. I want to get a TDI when $$ allows, but this car has been the most economical vehicle (from a fuel and maintenance standpoint) that I've ever owned, and while she's showing her age, she still makes a good college-commuter car. I would recommend a diesel M-B to anyone who wants an economical car...

 

[rthomas]

thank you tim!! that was a very good crash course on the m-b!!

 

[The Warden]

So, did anything ever come out of this? Be nice to hear if you were ever able to get her into one...

 

[rthomas]

not yet, ive got to wait until her accedent claim gets settled before i can sell the jeep i might be looking at september before i have time to shop for one

 

[The Warden]

That's too bad! I understand what you mean with dealing with the insurance Nazis...fortunately, I haven't dealt with them firsthand for making a claim...yet. I dread the day when I do...

Good luck!! If you have any more questions on the M-B's, just give a holler...

 

[rayv]

Did you pick up your MB? They are good cars. If I can persuade my wife to drive another MB, I'll get her another one. Look for cars made before 85. MB made 300 TD, which is the station wagon version of the W123.

What to look for once you have the MB? At about 250K miles the tranny would need a major service. This has been the trend on this cars. Make sure you replace the rubber disk on the drive train, this is the same as the cross joint in the american cars.

every year you need to have valve adjustment and replace the transmission fluid.

watch for the rust at the wells in the trunk.

I just sold my 300SD in Jan. I had 290K miles and newly rebuilt tranny. tranny will cost around $1500 to $2500 to rebuild.


good luck

 

[Michael Fowler]

I hope you're still searching for that M-B.
Warden did a thorough job of the basics. Here's a few more things to watch for.

MB Tex is Mercedes version of vinyl, but better than anybody else's. It is often honestly mistaken for leather. Even now when the cars are 20+ years old, MB Tex looks great, even better than leather. Leather needs care or it will dry out and crack. Many newbies to MB are drawn by the immaculate interiors on these cars.
Rust around the jack points is a warning, but not necesarily structural. Also pull up the rear carpet and look for rust on the side rail, especialy where the outboard shoulder belt bolts in.
Valve adjustments should be done regularly, must more often than every 200,000 miles. Probably on the order of 6000 miles. These valves tighten with wear, so adjusting them can have a profound effect on performance.
Wet carpets are often due to a leaking rear window.
Check out the archives at Mercedesshop.com.

 

[The Warden]

MB Tex is Mercedes version of vinyl, but better than anybody else's. It is often honestly mistaken for leather. Even now when the cars are 20+ years old, MB Tex looks great, even better than leather. Leather needs care or it will dry out and crack. Many newbies to MB are drawn by the immaculate interiors on these cars.

Michael's absolutely correct on this. I emphasized the "even better than leather" part due to personal experience. My 300D is one of the few W123 cars out there with genuine leather seats from the factory. Unfortunately, the car spent 20 years in Texas before I bought it, and the previous owners didn't take care of the leather. As a result, while the rest of my interior looks good, the front seats are thoroughly trashed. In retrospect, after seeing the interior, I should have passed on the car, but what's done is done. Don't make the mistake I made...as someone once said, "Mechanical problems are cheap. Body/interior problems are expensive!"

Rust around the jack points is a warning, but not necesarily structural. Also pull up the rear carpet and look for rust on the side rail, especialy where the outboard shoulder belt bolts in.
Valve adjustments should be done regularly, must more often than every 200,000 miles. Probably on the order of 6000 miles. These valves tighten with wear, so adjusting them can have a profound effect on performance.
Wet carpets are often due to a leaking rear window.
Check out the archives at Mercedesshop.com.

What he said The archives on MBShop are great, but speaking personally, I'm not too keen on the current board climate over there...so I haven't been frequenting MBShop as much as I used to. Also, there is an alternate cause for wet carpets. The body drains on these cars are maintenance items. The most critical ones are up in the hood area. If you open the hood all the way, you'll see pockets where the hinges go when the hood's closed. There are water drains from these pockets. Directly below these drains is another drain (one on each side of the car) where water runoff goes to the rear of the front wheel wells. I point these drains out because, if these drains get clogged with dirt, leaves, etc. the water instead goes into the rear seat footwells, and next thing you know, the cabin of your car is home to Lake Daimler. I found this out the hard way when I drove through a rainstorm shortly after getting my car...and ended up with water sloshing all over the place inside the car.

Hope this helps some