Lift pump mechanical or electrical?

[Booyah45828]

I have both the 12 psi version Facet and Ford mechanical lift pump in parallel, with check valves keeping them from backfeeding each other. I should also mention I put a fuel filter/water separator on the frame rail so both pumps are pumping clean fuel.

The reason I have both:
I installed the Facet after all the site support but it will NOT keep up with the fuel demands of a maxed out IP.
It would hold 8psi at idle and 1 or 0 psi at WOT. This screwed up the timing and lost me performance and MPGs.

So I got a Ford mechanical and did the parallel thing. It holds 4-5 psi no matter the RPM or the fuel demands. IP's are calibrated at 5psi. Coincidence?

So I made the Facet turn on with the cold idle advance and get all the priming I might need without it running all the time. The combo works well but I wouldn't suggest it.

If you go e-pump get a strong one and use an adjustable regulator. Some pumps have them, if not use an external. That's likely the direction I'll have to go when I get a hotter IP someday! Though if we ever find a higher volume mechanical I would jump all over that.

Happy wrenching!
-Joshua

I've always liked your setup and how it's ran off the cold advance. I've looked into doing something similar using a cheap cube pump with a built in check valve. The mechanical pump should have a pair of check valves installed internally, so a paralleled e-pump shouldn't backfeed fuel into a mechanical, so long as your mechanical is operating correctly. Those internal check valves in both pumps would make external check valves unnecessary imo.

 

[NeverHave-I-Ether]

So on my set up the fuel runs into from a Holley Black to a Holley psi regulator which has a fuel lab psi gauge built in. I'm assuming it has a check valve correct? Are check valves more of a optional thing to have on an electric fuel system? Haven't heard anything to warrant one since the E-fuel pump primes the system just fine.

 

[kbenz]

I have run the 13, 5 and the 22. the 22 is too high a pressure for our DB-2 pumps in the idi's so if the 22 is to be run in an idi application; a pressure regulator is needed.

The 5 and the 13 are great just as they are, for our idi's

I'm thinking on getting one for my WMO tank

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

I've always liked your setup and how it's ran off the cold advance. I've looked into doing something similar using a cheap cube pump with a built in check valve. The mechanical pump should have a pair of check valves installed internally, so a paralleled e-pump shouldn't backfeed fuel into a mechanical, so long as your mechanical is operating correctly. Those internal check valves in both pumps would make external check valves unnecessary imo.

The cheap cube pump would work fine, as you probably know just feed it with clean fuel and don't use the little pre-filters they come with.

As for the check valves, I'm pretty sure I remember Wes saying the mechanical can stop in an orientation where fuel could get past it(and then into the crank case if the diaphragm ruptured), but I'm not familiar with how it works. Check valves are cheap and easy so I went that route just in case.

 

[Kevin 007]

I'm thinking on getting one for my WMO tank

Yeah I pump WMO with them. They struggle when it's real thick (as any electric pump would) but I haven't had one fail. I do only ask them to pump a 50% blend tops tho and they do fine with that.

 

[kbenz]

I've always liked your setup and how it's ran off the cold advance. I've looked into doing something similar using a cheap cube pump with a built in check valve. The mechanical pump should have a pair of check valves installed internally, so a paralleled e-pump shouldn't backfeed fuel into a mechanical, so long as your mechanical is operating correctly. Those internal check valves in both pumps would make external check valves unnecessary imo.

I wouldn't trust backfeed valves in electric pumps. both my facet and holley will back feed

 

[jrollf]

IMHO of you want an e-pump "because it is easier to start" you are using a bandaid and not fixing the real problem, ether it be air intrusion or a fuel leak.

I keep on top of my fuel system, I hate even small leaks. Even when freezing outside, with a healthy set of glow plugs my 7.3 IDIT starts within a couple of revolutions.

 

[Cubey]

I went e-pump because it's far easier to reach if it ever needs to be serviced, being down on the frame rail between the axles. It's a bit more cramped on a van chassis in regards to how close the radiator is to the engine.

The opposite is true underneath at the frame rail, there is tons of space to crawl under and move around under there, much more so than on pickups most likely.

The mechanical pump was already bad (leaking to the ground) so I wanted to invest in something easier to service later if needed.

 

[Farmer Rock]

IMHO of you want an e-pump "because it is easier to start" you are using a bandaid and not fixing the real problem, ether it be air intrusion or a fuel leak.

I keep on top of my fuel system, I hate even small leaks. Even when freezing outside, with a healthy set of glow plugs my 7.3 IDIT starts within a couple of revolutions.

I completely agree with this. Too many folks add an e pump just to mask air getting in the system. I personally don't notice a difference starting between the two, but that's not why I like e pumps. Just for priming the system after doing engine work makes them worth it, and I really like how dependable they are. I do appreciate that e pumps will get me out of a jam with no problems, such as when my crew cab went crazy getting air in the lines on the way home, and had to be primed every couple minutes. The e pump would've had no problem getting me home. Once again, not a fix at all, more of a preventative measure for backups.



Rock

 

[IDIBRONCO]

more of a preventative measure for backups.

That's all I use mine for too. My truck runs off of a mechanical pump.

 

[Kevin 007]

All it takes is one single event of being in the middle of nowhere and needing to bleed/prime your fuel system and drain some batteries or fry a starter trying to get a mechanical lift pump truck bled off. Now you're stuck and things can get ugly fast, depending on the situation.

Yes a mechanical with E backup is a great idea also.

 

[Big Bart]

If you don’t have AAA or Sam‘s towing and drive a 30 year old truck. You might want to think about doing so for those days you are traveling Long distances and get stuck nowhere.

The flip side of say the Holley Red e-pump is when you are say no where and it stops working, when you get somewhere, parts are usually days away. (Not stocked frequently.) Some say just keep a spare on you, but you could keep a spare mechanical in your truck too. Just most folks don’t like stuff sitting in their truck taking up space and don’t do it.

Also many parts stores stock or locally stock mechanical ones so you can be back on the road if AAA has to give you a lift to the next town.

Breaking down is just part of the experience of 30 year old trucks with hundreds of thousand miles on them. That’s why I do AAA platinum for free 100 mile towing if needed. Added trailers to it too.

 

[Cubey]

If you don’t have AAA or Sam‘s towing and drive a 30 year old truck. You might want to think about doing so for those days you are traveling Long distances and get stuck nowhere.

I'm often several miles from a paved road where roadside assistance towing won't want to go, much less to fetch my motorhome + cargo trailer. So, that's another good reason for me to have an e-pump. That said, I do have roadside for times I might need it on paved roads. It's only a few dollars a month through my RV insurance policy and also covers the cargo trailer, so if the RV breaks down, they'll tow both.

While I basically always have ways to recharge my batteries.. such as solar+inverter+battery charger, or generator+battery charger, it's less time consuming to run an e-pump to purge air than to recharge dead batteries from tons of cranking. I have LiFePO4 house batteries, so I can't mix them with the starting batteries, so they have to be charged separately that way.

When my F250's batteries were going bad in late 2018, I had to use my tiny Yamaha EF600 generator and a lead acid marine battery to get it going, but that was unrelated to air intrusion. It has an e-pump too (a dinky 12D one, but it works fine for 6.9 NA) but the problem was the batteries dropping from glow plus and cranking due to the batteries themselves going bad.

I got a new pair of EverStart Maxx 65N batteries from Walmart Dec 2018 and have them in the RV now/still since early 2019. Never had a lick of trouble out of them. They have lasted longer than the 3yr free replacement O'Reilly ones that came in the truck when I got it, but I couldn't claim warranty on since I didn't have the phone # they were purchased under. Wasn't gonna pay $150/each for crap O'Reilly ones that don't last 3 years, paid under $100/each for WM ones that have lasted 3yrs 2mos, so far, with no signs of failing yet.

The flip side of say the Holley Red e-pump is when you are say no where and it stops working, when you get somewhere, parts are usually days away. (Not stocked frequently.) Some say just keep a spare on you, but you could keep a spare mechanical in your truck too. Just most folks don’t like stuff sitting in their truck taking up space and don’t do it.

You can get repair kits for the Holley pumps for about the price of a mechanical pump and store it in your glove box, because there's so little to it.

Fuel Pump Repair Kits - Holley

Fuel Pump Repair Kits

www.holley.com

 

[Farmer Rock]

All it takes is one single event of being in the middle of nowhere and needing to bleed/prime your fuel system and drain some batteries or fry a starter trying to get a mechanical lift pump truck bled off. Now you're stuck and things can get ugly fast, depending on the situation.

Yes a mechanical with E backup is a great idea also.

Exactly! X2

Rock

 

[Big Bart]

I'm often several miles from a paved road where roadside assistance towing won't want to go, much less to fetch my motorhome + cargo trailer. So, that's another good reason for me to have an e-pump. That said, I do have roadside for times I might need it on paved roads. It's only a few dollars a month through my RV insurance policy and also covers the cargo trailer, so if the RV breaks down, they'll tow both.

While I basically always have ways to recharge my batteries.. such as solar+inverter+battery charger, or generator+battery charger, it's less time consuming to run an e-pump to purge air than to recharge dead batteries from tons of cranking. I have LiFePO4 house batteries, so I can't mix them with the starting batteries, so they have to be charged separately that way.

When my F250's batteries were going bad in late 2018, I had to use my tiny Yamaha EF600 generator and a lead acid marine battery to get it going, but that was unrelated to air intrusion. It has an e-pump too (a dinky 12D one, but it works fine for 6.9 NA) but the problem was the batteries dropping from glow plus and cranking due to the batteries themselves going bad.

I got a new pair of EverStart Maxx 65N batteries from Walmart Dec 2018 and have them in the RV now/still since early 2019. Never had a lick of trouble out of them. They have lasted longer than the 3yr free replacement O'Reilly ones that came in the truck when I got it, but I couldn't claim warranty on since I didn't have the phone # they were purchased under. Wasn't gonna pay $150/each for crap O'Reilly ones that don't last 3 years, paid under $100/each for WM ones that have lasted 3yrs 2mos, so far, with no signs of failing yet.



You can get repair kits for the Holley pumps for about the price of a mechanical pump and store it in your glove box, because there's so little to it.

Fuel Pump Repair Kits - Holley

Fuel Pump Repair Kits

www.holley.com

Yes when you leave the pavement you are always on your own. I have been jeeping for years and winches, u-joints, ball joints, tire repair gear, belts, hoses, shovels, fluids, jumper cables, and roadside tools are first of mind. Never been left stuck due to a fuel pump but it could happen.

Yes the Holley pump rebuild kit can be handy and is a more common repair than the pump motor. But if the motor burns up it is likely you will be waiting a couple days for some one to order it in.

I do see the point that for van owners mechanical fuel pump replacement adds a new level of complexity. E-pumps certainly make the job the second time on a van far less frustrating.

But for truck owners it’s basic tools and less than an hour. 4 years later, knock on wood my mechanical pump is pumping away. If it does die my local Orielly’s stocks them. Now if my vacuum pumps would last that long. Third one in 4 years.

Never killed my batteries when I had air intrusion, but I replace batteries once they are marginal. I look for the highest CCA I can get, 3 year replacement, keep the connections clean, and the charging system ship shape.

When I got the truck my fuel tank gauges were already dead. Twice ran out of gas. I was still able to just add diesel, crank a few times for 10 seconds, and start without killing the batteries.

I think it’s really a matter of choice and comfort level when choosing what type of pump to go with. Perhaps The Josh Bear is the smartest guy on the site as he uses both types of pumps, fail over of sorts.(Perhaps one could say best of both worlds.)

But from what I have seen, if someone is thinking about an e-pump, those with Holley reds have been happy. But some members wrote they had issues with off brand e-pumps so buyers beware.