my dyno numbers are in.

[NMB2]

I think the real test would be to run your truck on a sumo with your dps
Pump maxed out, then swap a moose pump, max it out, and dump it. When maxed out it will give us the best way to figure it out.

See what I'm saying?

But there is alot more to it than max fuel output which I think I have seemed to show.

My comparison between the pumps from the dyno charts wasn't the fuel outputs.

What I found to be very impressive with the DPS pump was my torque curve. Heaths goes up, and then almost right away plunges back down... whereas mine goes up, and pretty much stays up... flattens out and slowly dives.

For reference that is roughly a 1600rpm - 3200rpm pull I think.

This is mainly affected by the tuning of the fueling/timing curve inside the pump.

 

[FordGuy100]

What I'm saying is max the fuel out so as the stock setting from each supplier can be ruled out. Perhaps the pumps are the same and your has two flats from Ken vs moose (not true but it factors that variable out).

 

[wmoguy]

But there is alot more to it than max fuel output which I think I have seemed to show.

My comparison between the pumps from the dyno charts wasn't the fuel outputs.

What I found to be very impressive with the DPS pump was my torque curve. Heaths goes up, and then almost right away plunges back down... whereas mine goes up, and pretty much stays up... flattens out and slowly dives.

For reference that is roughly a 1600rpm - 3200rpm pull I think.

This is mainly affected by the tuning of the fueling/timing curve inside the pump.

I must've misread, so you just have the stock Turbo pump from DPS, not their "hot" pump? Have you turned up the fuel delivery beyond what it came from DPS at?

 

[NMB2]

I must've misread, so you just have the stock Turbo pump from DPS, not their "hot" pump? Have you turned up the fuel delivery beyond what it came from DPS at?

I have kens "turbo calibrated pump"

I actually just got off the phone with Ken... he said this is exactly what he has been expecting and glad to finally see it.

As for my boost issue, Ken schooled me a little bit on how the dyno's work and told me that he thinks the boost was probably the dyno not loading my engine up enough. I called and talked to Ryan and he said that is no problem, we can just put more load on it.

As for ZF5 vs T19... Ken confirmed the ZF5 has significantly more drag because it runs the countershaft in every gear, including 1:1, whereas the T19 is direct drive.

One more thing that Ken brought up. My HP number is too low for my torque number, he said that this is probably due to not having an RPM pickup. He said the dyno will get the torque spot on, but the HP will show up low. Curve will be exactly right, but on a lower part of the graph.

HP is figured from Torque, and by doing that formula, it does reveal HP being a tad low... but I honestly dont know, its not my area of expertise.

I plan to find a dynojet once I get to Washington, not to tune my truck by any means, but to get a direct dyno comparison. Obviously it will still be higher, but we can see exactly how much higher.

We will see what I can push out next week, and look forward to see what Ken and I have in the works later this fall

 

[NMB2]

What I'm saying is max the fuel out so as the stock setting from each supplier can be ruled out. Perhaps the pumps are the same and your has two flats from Ken vs moose (not true but it factors that variable out).

I get what you're saying, but I didn't think that was the way to do it.

As I already said, I asked Ken to confirm. That is not the way to compare the two pumps. That is just the max fuel screw, it wont change the low end, and my broader powerband vs Heaths spiked powerband. Those variables are determined by the static timing, which doesn't change, and the fueling curve, which Ken modifies as well. You can not alter it by turning the fuel screw, it is physical, internal modification.

Also, I'm running DPS injectors vs the Misters... so it still would not be close to a direct comparison.

 

[NMB2]

Doing more research is looks like my HP is low due to the dyno not being able to read rpm, and there is no correction.

(Torque X RPM) / 5252 = Horsepower

558 x 2200 / 5252 = 233rwhp

528 x 3200 / 5252 = 321rwhp (at the peak of my HP curve)

Link to support :
http://horsepowersports.com/torque.php

Looks like there is alot more promise from these engines than once thought!

I didnt think I would get this excited about it, but I am pretty stoked about this.

 

[88 Ford]

Hey NMB2, doesn't DPS have a performance pump that is hotter than the turbo calibration pump and if so, have you thought about running it?
Also, I wonder what your engine would do with Type4's cam. It would be interesting.

Doing more research is looks like my HP is low due to the dyno not being able to read rpm, and there is no correction.

(Torque X RPM) / 5252 = Horsepower

558 x 2200 / 5252 = 233rwhp

528 x 3200 / 5252 = 321rwhp (at the peak of my HP curve)

Link to support :
http://horsepowersports.com/torque.php

Looks like there is alot more promise from these engines than once thought!

I didnt think I would get this excited about it, but I am pretty stoked about this.

Also, I think you were over 300 hp! Just my $.02.

 

[93f250idi]

those are good numbers! im glad youve had good luck with dps parts! maybe he's changed and makes good parts now? cant wait for the numbers with higher boost

 

[onus]

Did you choose your turbo for 25psi? It seem to be a bit to the right side on graph at 20psi but no where out of it efficiency range.

 

[NMB2]

well Ken and I actually talked today about building me a new pump. He said he can build a bolt on pump that will put out twice the fuel of my current pump, and the Stage 1's will still keep up, no problem he says.

Here is my ultimate plan:

I bought this truck to tow with and I wanted to experiment with IDI's. My last tow rig was an 01 2500HD with a 6.0 vortec, and I wanted to go mechanical diesel. I hate dodge, so that left the IDI.

If I didnt see good results with my IDI I was going to scrap it for a powerstroke. Obviously that is not the case. Now that I have proven the engine capabilities, I want a nicer package to wrap it around. My flatbed is a great work truck, but I need something more daily driver friendly.

Once in WA I'm going to pickup a 92-94 350 ext or 4dr IDI dually. Scrap the motor, put mine in with a new DPS pump, some other mods that I have come up with that I'm not going to share yet. I will intercool it, and I'm going to run probably in the ballpark of 25-26psi after the cooler.

Did you choose your turbo for 25psi? It seem to be a bit to the right side on graph at 20psi but no where out of it efficiency range.

Evan (82F100SWB) did all the graphs and research with me. IIRC it is good to 35psi.

 

[onus]

So you were shooting for 25psi. Neat, should be a powerful beast! What did you torque your head studs too?

*edit* I hope you try to hit 35psi!

 

[NMB2]

So you were shooting for 25psi. Neat, should be a powerful beast! What did you torque your head studs too?

*edit* I hope you try to hit 35psi!

, I think I'm going to cap out at about 26psi.... I need this truck to last.

If it was a play-toy though, I would definitely see how far I could push it.

 

[onus]

You have a point. I want to see how it does at 26 psi. If it last i want to build something like this, then I'll never need a newer diesel. I'm sure extra gains could be made if you changed the exhaust manifold and piping to the turbo. If your getting a new truck stick that engine in this one and use that as a test bed, if it blows up, oh well.

 

[funnyman06]

NMB2, I wouldnt start basing the moose parts yet, it has been proven time and time again that kens stage 1 injects typically have a TERRIBLE spray pattern. Mel has put a lot of R&D time into both the moose pump and the moose misters. I would be willing to bet that if you installed a moose pump and misters you would see improved HP and MPG over the stuff that Ken typically ships out.

You might have gotten a good shipment from Ken, but many users have had problems with his products AND his service. Ken has a lot of experience with IDIs and im sure if he took his time to develop consistent quality, we all would hold him in high regards.

About Heaths Moose pump and misters dyno run, Heath ended up making more boost with the misters would could have potentially lead to more power, but his turbo was so far outside of its map that he was super heating the air and in fact loosing power. If i recall there was a common acceptance that if he had a bigger turbo he probably would have made a lot more power.

Finally, very nice numbers. Being a poor college student I dont have the money yet to create a nice IDI build. But your work has given me hope and inspiration that my IDI will one day put down decent numbers. Keep up the good work and lets see more dyno runs.

 

[88 Ford]

NMB2, I see in your sig it says you are running an ATS 093 turbo, did you just modify that turbo or are you now running a different turbo?