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Rotella ELC, universal green, or...?

Discussion in '6.9L IH & 7.3L IDI Diesels' started by Cubey, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Macrobb

    Macrobb Full Access Member

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    Part of the problem with SCAs is that the mix ratio has to be right, and you have to maintain the levels - too low and it won't protect. Too high and it will actually eat copper itself, IIRC.
    This is why you have to dose it correctly and maintain that ratio.

    HD ELCs(G-05 and compatibles, etc.) use a different method for preventing cavitation, and don't have the "too high" level problem. This is why they can advertize a 5yr/300k mile coolant.
    (Also, Zerex's HD ELC offers a dose of the same additive pack that you can add at 5 years and extend the life again).

    Because I'm lazy - I just want to fill and forget for a few years - I chose the ELC coolant. I haven't seen anything wrong with either G-05 or Zerex's HD ELC as far as not protecting or eating any metals, so I can use it in anything.
     
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  2. DrCharles

    DrCharles Full Access Member

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    Well, the G-05 is certainly sounding better... how much flushing is needed to get the green+SCA out? Are they incompatible to the point of creating sludge like the Dexcool?
     
  3. Oledirtypearl86

    Oledirtypearl86 Full Access Member

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    So I got a question not to detur the thread. So is it the cavitation of the coolant that causes the worm holes in the coolant passage around the cylinder or is it a existing worm hole from casting that causes the cavitation and the cavitation with the coolant expands the existing flaw in the cast? The reason I ask is I have a boiler license and in my boiler book cavitation is defined as The process in which microscopic gas bubbles expanding a vacuum and suddenly implode when entering a pressurized area. Also when I was working as a divers we would replace props on large ships and you could always see when they had cavitated the prop it had small pits that would lead to miss balanced props and eventually breakage
     
  4. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    It’s the same process with these trucks, the bursting bubbles is caused by the flex of the cylinder walls when our high compression ratio engines make combustion. Only thing it has to do with the casting is the fact that the 7.3s have less cylinder wall thickness than the 6.9s
     
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  5. Cubey

    Cubey Full Access Member

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    Three full distilled flushes are probably enough. That's what I plan on. The first distilled fill will also be radiator flush. I'll drive it 2-3 days (city, no towing), then drain and refill twice more with distilled 2 more times.

    Although I might cut a corner and use filtered water instead on the first fill. (25c a gallon vs $1) Then distilled after that. 16 gallons of distilled flushing should be enough to get any remaining minerals from filtered.
     
  6. Oledirtypearl86

    Oledirtypearl86 Full Access Member

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    Thank you Wes more food for thought
     
  7. Macrobb

    Macrobb Full Access Member

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    Recently, I was at a local shop/store that works on semis and such. Out in the lobby, they had two large cylinder liners on display.
    The first was a good 6+ inches in diameter, off of a big cummins I think. The walls on this wet-sleeve liner were less than 1/4", by by calibrated eye.
    It looked spotless. I asked, and it had a good 900K miles on it. It was replaced because the crosshatching had mostly gone away on the inside. To my eye, it was still better than 99% of the IDIs I've seen inside(you could still actually see crosshatching!)

    Next to that, was one that was perhaps 5" in diameter. Similar design, on most of it it looked perfect... except for one spot about 1/4 way down the wall. It looked like someone had dripped acid on it. A whole section, 1.5" in diameter that was just... pockmarked. The pocks were like 1/8" diameter, and in the center of this spot, it had eaten all the way through with a pinhole to the inside.
    When I asked about this one, it apparently was from a railroad truck. Only 50K miles(but unknown idling hours). They had not maintained the coolant, and it came out rust brown.

    So, to answer your question, no matter how good the cylinder wall is, with the right(wrong) conditions, it *can* cavitate.
     
  8. Conky

    Conky Registered User

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    Is the Rotella purple colored?
     
  9. Tim McKay

    Tim McKay Registered User

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    New here, and purchased my son the first Diesel in our family. I have been doing some research and have found The Cummins Filtration site to have a wealth of information on Coolants.

    On this page https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/training there is a webinar conducted by Lauren Lewis, a product expert in coolants, that has a significant amount of information in it. If you don’t want to listen to the entire 30 minutes, start at about the 13:30 minute mark. The Q&A session us informative also.


    Here is a brief on a few points:

    ·ASTM 6210 is a test for liner pitting. Any coolant you use should specifically call out that it passes this spec. Not all do.

    ·2-Ethylhexanoic Acid (2-EH) is a component in many long life coolants. It is aggressive to some elastomers, including head gaskets. It is best not to use coolants that have this ingredient. Cummins ES Compleat OAT does not have 2-EH.

    ·OAT type coolants are best used with aluminum radiators compared to other type non OAT coolants. OAT type coolants are also less aggressive to water pump seals.

    Lauren clearly states that the Cummins ES Cpmpleat OAT is fully compatible with elastomers in older engines. (our IDI engines)


    Here is a written summary of her webinar in white paper form:https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/china/sites/cumminsfiltration.com.china/files/LT36442.pdf


    Here is additional information if interested:

    https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/organicacidtechnology


    There is a document I found on the web that I can no longer locate. I believe it was the actual Cummins CES 14603 spec. In it, it specifically called out Rotella collants, and their private labels, as NOT being approved for use in Cummins engines due to containing 2-EH.


    Cummins is the only engine manufacturers that develops and tests their own coolants. They have extensive information out there if you search for it. Based on all the information I have read, I will be draining whatever is in my sons IDI, and replacing it with Cummins ES Compleat OAT coolant.


    Disclaimer: I do not, nor have I ever worked, dealt, or owned a Cummins product. I do have experience with material compatibility testing, specifically power train oils and rubber sealing products. With that background knowledge, everything I have read from Cummins is based on testing, not marketing fluff.

    Hopefully this helps some people.
     
  10. nelstomlinson

    nelstomlinson Full Access Member

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    For what it's worth, the NAPA green coolant I linked to earlier does have SCAs. I test it with the NAPA test strips, and the strips report that it has the optimal level of nitrites.

    Oddly, the SDS does not show nitrites, but the test strips do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  11. BeastMaster

    BeastMaster Registered User

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    Any comment on Chevron Delo ELC?

    I went to a lot of fuss to get a case of it for my 7.3L N/A IDI.
     
  12. CDX825

    CDX825 filtration nut

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    If it has the cummins 14603 spec it will be fine.
     
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  13. BeastMaster

    BeastMaster Registered User

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  14. ttman4

    ttman4 Last Nite's Dream..

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    Hi in the Cascades, Nearly- Redmond,Oregon
    Well I do know for a fact cavitation & pitting is real.
    About 5 yr ago I was using my old 1970 3 cyl Ford 4500 TLB digging a stump, tractor running good & stout. Noticed a hot smell, shut it down & cked radiator. It was dry so I filled it up.

    Started it back up & it sounded & ran great. Couple minutes later I noticed water & oil overflowing out the dipstick, etc. Shut things down, scratching my head etc, etc.

    Decided to do a compression ck which checked out all cyl with excellent compression. Tore engine down & found a rather large pinhole on #3 cyl that was BELOW the piston stroke.

    Early yrs since new the tractor had just had antifreeze & water. About 2 yrs before this happened I had started running antifreeze, distilled, & SCA additives in it but too little to late! LOL
     
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