NEED MORE BOOST

[riotwarrior]

Bang that beach at the governor and be happy all day long...run that thing at 2K and be like and whine like a school girl bout a dirty sock .....


Just sayin run that beach like it is supposed to....

Think I mentioned that way earlier on in this thread about lack of RPM....

 

[racin460]

farmer frank just looked twice. you might be familiar with route 83 south of Harrisburg to York. if so ressers summit hill headed south I can hit that hill about 65mph 1700rpm 5th gear, down shift to 4th rpm goes to about 2500 and the egt hit 12 about half way I have to let off and slow down. the rpms don't drop until I let off. any opinion is a good opinion to me, if you say im an idiot ok. ill be headed throw Harrisburg Friday night about 7:00pm headed to reading. cant say I need it timed but if you wanted to see the truck pull the trailer im willing to show you how I can make traffic slow down on the highway when I smoke out the WHOLE road. and then you might believe me I need more air or less fuel. "id like the more air side of things not less fuel"

 

[FarmerFrank]

I believe anything you tell me, not doubting you at all. But if your egts are threw the roof you could be correct in the thought of a bigger flow of air cooling it down.

Like stated there is also the option of less fuel because If its just billowing its not making power.

Then the option of water/**** injection is also on the table to cool egts.

With milled pistons and ceramic coated everything wouldn't it be able to maintain higher temps?? J/w on that.

But don't over look the option of dropping to third gear, slowing down a little more and getting the rpms and boost up to cool the engine down and not smoke so much. Your gvw is around the 16-17k mark if your trailers 11 so having to drop to third gear on a big hill isn't something to be ashamed about.

 

[Black dawg]

on a hill that I used to pull regularly (6-7% grade) I could hit the bottom at 65 (and 2200) and roll into the throttle, boost would go to 12 or 13 psi and egt would take just a little to get past 1100 and then stabilize. This isnt quite floored. If I did floor it, egt would max at 1200, boost would climb just past 13, and the truck would accelerate uphill. The problem for me was always coolant temp. This is all at 18k and 5000+ ft altitude. almost smoke free.

7.3 non wastegated ats and 6.0 intercooler. Your set up should make more boost at those engine speeds. Maybe I missed it, but what intercooler are you running.

also from my experience, less timing works better when running these things this hard.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

probably should be set @ 6-7 BTDC with so much fuel.

 

[Greg5OH]

question about running at the governor. I tried winding mine uptoday, but it starts fuel cutting up high. Is this the "governor" or is it just fuel cut? u feel it get soft. Not what I want to feel if im climbing a hill loaded..

 

[79jasper]

That's the governor.
Goes from pulling to a flat line, so to speak.
If you were climbing a hill or had a good load, I don't think it'll flatten out as quick.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

 

[towcat]

when you throw a load on the motor, it is perfectly safe to be bouncing off the governor.

 

[Greg5OH]

cool thanks

 

[zjspeedy]

I'll throw in some experience with my truck.

I did a minor overhaul on my truck two years ago after i moved 2000 miles. I moved from Bremerton Washington to Muscatine Iowa. During the trip i had over heating issues. Mostly the engine running hot and from time to time bouncing the egt's off 1100 degrees. I was pulling a tow dolly with my 87 ranger 89 f350 fully loaded down with stuff. Total weight was probably 9000 lbs towing. More than once traveling i-90 through washington, idaho, montana, wyoming, and south dakota i had to let off the throttle to keep egts down below 1100 and coolant temps below 235. Anyway, during the overhaul i swapped out the stock radiator for the largest aluminum radiator i could find. I also pulled out all that insulation around the engine bay for less insulation as well as the fact that imho all that does is collect dust dirt and oil. Less than a year ago I pulled the heaviest wight so far for my step dad. I pulled a 1960s small ford tractor weighing about 8000 lbs on my newly bought 3 axle trailer which weighs between 3 and 4000 lbs. On my way to the delivery point there is a steep 7% grade hill for about 1/2 mile. I floored the truck going into the hill and had to downshift about 1/3 the way up. Still floored in 4th gear The truck stayed rock solid at 50 miles per hour. EGT rose and parked at 1000 degrees. Coolant temp rose and parked at 215 degrees. I have the banks wastegate turbo and it parked at 10.5 psi. No intercooler. Since it is not posted on my signature, i have 4.10 gears in the rear. Currently working on my axle to regear to 3.55 gears.

All being said the cooling system does have an effect on temperatures for engine, engine oil, and engine bay can be affected by ripping out that old matting. All that reduction in temperature should reduce the EGTs overall from my experience.

P.S. if i remember right my rpms was about 2300, i dont remember the rpms much as i was paying much more attention to the other gauges. To my surprise i never blew black smoke. My exhaust blew a light white smoke most likely from the cdr valve depressurizing the crank case.

 

[zjspeedy]

Also I want to throw in that if you are towing heavy loads with an older turbo truck like mine you have to think like a trucker. You do not go into a hill at normal speed then floor it, this will cause the turbo lag and billowing of black smoke. Often when going into a hill I will slow the tuck down about 10mph of what i was going. Once i get to a certain point I will floor it to get the boost pressure up to maximum. by the time i get to the bottom of the hill i am back to the speed i was at before i slowed down. The difference is having maximum boost pressure as you go into the hill, not after. Turbo lag has an effect on the engine's ability to perform and it is up to the driver to be aware of that. My dad was a semi truck driver for 15 years and taught me this when hauling heavy loads. I also used this information when i towed the weight above.

Don't take this the wrong way, but most people nowadays do not know how to drive a diesel truck. Just trying to help you pull that 11,000 pound load without doing anything major modification wise and waste your money on zero to no effect in performance. I do still stand by my statement of lower cooling temperatures equals lower EGTs, at least to a certain degree. Towing a heavy load with these trucks is possible, you just have to think like a big rig truck driver.

 

[PwrSmoke]

I didn't catch the part about the truck having 3.55 gears, so yeah... that's it! Gears that tall require a lot more downshifting. Think of gearing as a torque multiplier. Lower gears increase the rear wheel torque. If you don't multiply at the axle you have to do it at the trans.

Don't not be afraid of higher revs. Rev it past 2500! Peak HP is at 3300 rpm and sometimes you just need to zing it up. Higher rpms can often drop the EGTs (it does on my truck) because the turbo is pushing more air thru the engine. The water pump is also pushing more coolant thru the system and the fan pulling more air thru the radiator. If it doesn't work that way, you may be overfueling and might want to set the fuel back a little, or maybe you need a wastegate adjustment. I found that the pump settings that gave me the most fun "hot-rod" performance wasn't necessarily the best setting for towed loads... especially on hills. Does no good to be making power that pushes the EGTs so high that you can't use it. That's one reason why the factory settings were always conservative. IMO, about 220 rwhp is it for an engine without an intercooler and 250 rwhp with are the benchmarks for an engine without a lot of very special prep. Assuming a guy wants longevity and low risk operation on trips. An intercooler would help a lot in this case and maybe drop the EGTs enough to keep the high fuel settings. This goes back to the basic power density capability of this engine. Short "hot-rod" spurts are one thing. Hour after hour with an 11K trailer is something else. A gearing drop will increase your performance, drop your EGTs and probably increase your towing fuel economy. With your 5-speed, you won't see much of a hit in solo fuel economy but a big gain in solo acceleration performance.

 

[92F350CC]

Another thing which I haven't seen mentioned...what size tires are you running? Taller tires give you higher final gearing. So if you're running 3.55s and 37s, you're going to be too low in the RPM band.

 

[Agnem]

The big problem that I see are that our current production turbo kits are all sized for factory fuel plus about 20% A Bull Moose is almost a 100% increase, which these turbos are too small to handle properly. Yes, you can 'overdrive' a wastegated turbo, but at the expense of higher EGT's and greater exhaust restriction. My Moose Boost turbo does produce 20 PSI easily (see Heath Sutton's thread on the install), but is only a good fit for the Hypermax kit at present. I'm working on some custom parts to make fitting these turbo's onto some of the other platforms more of a simple bolt on. More RPM's is only a band aid to the real problem, which is getting the turbo math to work properly.

 

[PwrSmoke]

The big problem that I see are that our current production turbo kits are all sized for factory fuel plus about 20% A Bull Moose is almost a 100% increase, which these turbos are too small to handle properly. Yes, you can 'overdrive' a wastegated turbo, but at the expense of higher EGT's and greater exhaust restriction. My Moose Boost turbo does produce 20 PSI easily (see Heath Sutton's thread on the install), but is only a good fit for the Hypermax kit at present. I'm working on some custom parts to make fitting these turbo's onto some of the other platforms more of a simple bolt on. More RPM's is only a band aid to the real problem, which is getting the turbo math to work properly.

Makes sense. So, Mel, if you have a "regular" turbo setup is the answer to dial back the fuel screw a bit to bring the EGT down, as well as the other bandaids? What about an aneroid to meter a bit according to boost? In other words, if you have a "regular" turbo system and a Bull Moose, what are the keys to setting up and tuning?