NEED MORE BOOST

racin460

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Posts
214
Reaction score
0
Location
York PA
hello im looking for info on what guys are doing to get more boost (say 20 psi) I have a 093ats kit on a fresh 7.3 studs,shaved pistions, type 4 cam, bull moose pump, misters all that I can do to this POS. this truck is used only to pull a trailer (34' toy hauler about 11,000lb. truck runs great till you hit a hill and the egt hit 11,000 so now you gota let off down shift, most hills I top at 35mph 3rd gear holding 11-12 egt holding 7-9psi boost to the top:mad:. this thing smokes more than a freight train:eek:. and I wanta drive it off a cliff. when it hits bottom and burst into flames at lest it has a good excess make all the black smoke:rotflmao. mel rebuilt the turbo when all work was done. im just trying to figure out if the aftermarket charge wheel that russ does will help, or a hx35, any thing. I need a more affiant boost. any help would be great:dunno. sorry for the spelling and grammar mistakes that's why I don't type much on here:eek:.
 

79jasper

Chickenhawk
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Posts
17,367
Reaction score
1,930
Location
Collinsville, Oklahoma
I would be looking to a different turbo setup + intercooler.
Can have all the fuel in the world, but without enough air to burn it, it's just a waste.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk
 

FORDF250HDXLT

The life of an Indian is like the wings of the air
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Posts
6,456
Reaction score
1,127
Location
Maine & Oklahoma
too much fuel.turn it down or install an intercooler.since she's only used to tow a toy hauler,then give her some 4.56 gears.she'll go.
 

icanfixall

Official GMM hand model
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Posts
25,858
Reaction score
672
Location
West coast
What is your timing set for. Have you timed the engine after all the pump and work you did. Now is a great time to install an intercooler. There are several options on how to do this. Hypermax has a kit but. Its designed for their turbo hat so modifying yours to fit theirs will be needed. Changing gears is another idea too. Mel may have modified your turbo but if not. contact Russ and talk.
 

racin460

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Posts
214
Reaction score
0
Location
York PA
im sorry I didn't post in the beginning that I have a intercooler on it, and cold air intake. and yes mel timed the truck for me and drove it. let me see... gears sounds like im still going to get 7-9psi out of the turbo, right? I know there has been a lot of discussion on here about making 20psi, but know one has said what turbo they have. I get about 2-5psi around 1700rpm-60mph, when I get to a hill that just is not enough air for the fuel, and the smoke begins.....
 

FORDF250HDXLT

The life of an Indian is like the wings of the air
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Posts
6,456
Reaction score
1,127
Location
Maine & Oklahoma
no boost leaks? 100% positive? whats the story with the wastegate?
 

racin460

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Posts
214
Reaction score
0
Location
York PA
I looked for boost leaks and exhaust leaks cant find any evidence.
 

towcat

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Posts
18,196
Reaction score
1,437
Location
SantaClara,Ca/Hamilton,TX
most people are at the 10-15 psi realm here. there was one other person here talking about 20 psi....he didn't mention about valve float issues either.
if you are talking about guys running 20 psi plus, you must be thinking about the guys over on FTE.
 

racin460

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Posts
214
Reaction score
0
Location
York PA
hey id be happy with 10-15psi max around 2000rpm, that should get me more than 2-5 at 1700rpm. and as for as a *** contest about r&d performance I bought my head studs from him and what a great guy to deal with. I bought my cam from russ awesome guy, and had mel do all the work on pump, turbo, injectors, time and drive. super nice family business. so I don't need to here the bull about each other. so that said has any one used r&d turbos, or russ's aftermarket charge wheel in a 093 kit
 

79jasper

Chickenhawk
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Posts
17,367
Reaction score
1,930
Location
Collinsville, Oklahoma
I'm pretty sure he was saying that, as in not many people here are running his parts, and no one has made the power they have.
Why not justins turbo?

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk
 

towcat

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Posts
18,196
Reaction score
1,437
Location
SantaClara,Ca/Hamilton,TX
hey id be happy with 10-15psi max around 2000rpm, that should get me more than 2-5 at 1700rpm. and as for as a *** contest about r&d performance I bought my head studs from him and what a great guy to deal with. I bought my cam from russ awesome guy, and had mel do all the work on pump, turbo, injectors, time and drive. super nice family business. so I don't need to here the bull about each other. so that said has any one used r&d turbos, or russ's aftermarket charge wheel in a 093 kit
let's try this again.
outside of Dyoung14(he's the one who pegged 20psi @4500 rpm with valve float) almost noone here has hit that kind of psi with turbo technology as we know of.
last time I checked, that didn't sound like a ******* contest of any sort.
i am politely referring the guys who do hang out at FTE who has hit those numbers.
doesn't sound like a ******* contest to me either. in fact, it sounds like to me that I'm acknowledging their achievements.
imho, (and this is coming from a guy who tows heavy for a living) you need gearing so the motor can spin and build the boost and stay in the powerband you desire. if you really want a serious discussion, post up info such as the elevation change you are towing in, percent grade and what your rpms are in relation to your speed on flat ground. the health of your cooling system is also a critical matter. to me, it's more than just throwing parts at a truck. they all have to work together.
 

PwrSmoke

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Posts
807
Reaction score
22
Location
Northwest Ohio
My suggestions come on several levels, the first being to adopt a realistic sense of what these old trucks can do... and cannot do. You are dealing with 40 year old tech here. The power density of an IDI engine simply isn't equivalent to anything available today. Most diesel light truck engines of today can make more power stock than ours can do even highly built. It's a simple fact of physics. 11,000# is a load for an IDI truck and you are probably running over the GCVWR at that (of course I've never done that myself ( : < ). Bottom line, realize you don't have a budget DMax or Common Rail Cummins there and it never will be one unless you swap one of those engines into it (in fact, a Cummins swap is probably your most practical and cost effective power answer).

My first practical suggestion is to find out where you are now. Throw the truck onto a dyno and see what you are getting. If you are in the 195-220 rwhp range, there isn't much left to get that won't take either loads of cash to get and/or start cutting into reliability. "Boost" is just a number. Pressure is resistance to flow and sometimes engines with more boost are flowing less and making less power than those with a higher boost number that only exists because the air can't get thru the engine. Anyway, if you get some good dyno numbers then you will know better where you are and maybe get some hints on what to do next. If you are in that range above and you really gotta have more...maybe you need a newer truck or an engine swap.

I have hauled 11,000 pound many times over the past 27 years of owning this truck and I know it makes around 200 hp at the rear wheels most times. It used to cross the Rockies at 18,500 GCVWR and 40-45 mph in the slow lane, rolling smoke and running 900-1100 EGT. Many times I had to back off to keep EGT in a safe range. Well, I knew that was about all I could reasonably expect, so I adjusted my driving style and schedule to suit the capabilities of the truck. Another think I did when traveling was to leave some stuff at home. I used to think I needed to have my good home water with me, so I carried around 800# of water. What a moron! You'd be amazed at what a performance increase comes from dropping 800# of weight!

Going back to boost, another suggestion is to hook up a drive pressure gauge, with is nothing more than an exhaust pressure gauge at the turbo (google "what is Drive pressure?" to get a more complete explanation and save my fingers). Optimally, boost and drive pressure are the same but typically drive pressure is higher than boost. The higher drive pressure is vs boost, the more restriction and backpressure is developed and at higher EGTs.

What sort of exhaust do you have? The most important part is up front.. the first three feet or so. Unfortunately, there isn't room for much larger than about a 3-inch downpipe and that's what is calculated by the folks that size the turbos to the engine, but if your turbo outlet is at least 3-inch, smooth and unkinked for about the first three feet or so, you are doing good. If it's a homemade, crimp-bent, dented or jagged pipe, there is room for some gains. A bigger system after that point doesn't gain all that much but you want a nice flowing system. Years ago I put a larger system on after the Banks mandrill bent downpipe. I did see the boost come up a few PSI but it didn't yield any power. Conversely, on a trip one year the original Banks system fell off (after ONLY 15 years) and I had to have a muffler shop do a crimp-bent system on the road to get home. Boost dropped about 2 psi and EGTs were higher but I really couldn't feel much of a drop in power.

For towing with our old tech engines, my opinion has long been that a properly-sized NON-wastegated turbo is better. You don't get that off-the-line acceleration snap that you do with a wastegated turbo, but non-wastegated are often more efficient and generate lower EGTs and drive pressure than wastegated turbos. Those steady state, long term loads are what kill you EGT-wise more than anything, IMO, which is why I never went to a wastegated turbo.

I think you could probably stand a bit more boost... certaily a bit more than 10 psi but no more than 15 unless you are intercooled. Most aftermaket systems are designed to make around 10 psi at full power. Why you don't have it ??? I don't know exactly. Wastegate adjustment? If you are close enough, seek out Mel and have him tweak your timing and wastegate.

Again, find a dyno and make a least three good runs with the engine fully warmed up. Then you WILL know.
 

riotwarrior

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Posts
14,778
Reaction score
482
Location
Cawston BC. Canada
These engines kinda like spinning a bit more than 2K and as Towcat says, truly important information is needed.

Gearing and tyre size
Transmission TYPE???

Grade?

You are missing a bit of info however I'm guessing a ZF 5sp or maybe a T19? I dunno...So help us help you...

Start by filling in your signature with truck info and also telling us.

For having decomped engine,an IC and built IP and turbo I'd say you may have boost leak someplace...

PM Typ4 about turbo mods he does, perhaps that's what is required...for higher boost levels you want.

Remember these trucks are solid working trucks but in no way pull like a cummins or duramax or the new strokes....

you are working with a 20 + year old diesel engine design, and to expect current gen pulling from them is not fair to you or of them.
 

icanfixall

Official GMM hand model
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Posts
25,858
Reaction score
672
Location
West coast
Can you tell us what radiator in in the truck. If its a 3 row dimple core it will never cool that engine. The dimple core was an idea of making dimples in the tubes to slow down the drop of coolant to release more heat. Well it did not work like the engineers said it would. Originally we had a 4 row with 15 or 16 fins per inch of tube. For the cost I suggest an aluminum radiator from champion. They run about $200.00. For the cost they sure have proven them right. Now a Rodney Red is about $650.00 and you will have issues getting the engine hot. I have the Red and I really don't see 190 degrees much if ever. Modfying the flat spring on the factory only fan clutch is another great ungrade. That allows the fan to lock up early. Not locking up at 230 or 240 degrees like many do now. Typ4 can advise how to do that or do a search here. One last issue with any 7.3 engine. We just don't have the cooling passages like the 6.9 does. The engineers plugged off 2 places on the heads and the block. So naturally we run a little hotter. The easy fix is run the 6.9 head gaskets and punch holes in the plugs of the cooling passages. Its been done and it works. Some are comcerned that we can't run 6.9 head gaskets on a 7.3. A member even posted the fire rigs are smaller and of a different material on the 6.9. Thats not what I have measured or seen. I did read what this poster has listed and an suspect on its content and when it was published. That info may have been correct at one time but I do not see it being correct today. Most on this forum do not know there was a time when we could buy a turbo head gasket for the 7.3. Now that all we can buy. also we once could buy a turbo and non turbo oil cooler. Now its only the turbo oil cooler. Things change for the better and companies can't stock gasket sets for small changes in application so they include more gaskets to cover different applications like van or truck for oil coolers. It adds more cost but whats a small piece of gasket material cost. Towing the load you want to tow is a lot. As posted, please tell us the gearing and grades and elevations.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
91,217
Posts
1,128,487
Members
24,045
Latest member
Ramtough01

Staff online

Top