Jesus Freak's WMO IP thread

Black dawg

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I'm not making any definitive statement, I'm saying that y'all are all over the map! And I just want some hard evidence. A couple guys make like it's the death of the IP and injectors, and then @leswhitt comes along and says......ahhhhhh it's fine, just centerfuge it, filter it, cut and call it good. And then here comes Keith Green (who I agree with) and he says, "keep doing your best, pray that it's blessed, and Jesus'll take care of the rest". I don't have any agenda, but I at least got some questionable pictures of bigfoot that might prove he exist and I can't say that about IPs wore out from WMO.
It is the internet........guys will be all over the map......no way to tell for sure how much experience anybody has at anything.

I know a couple guys locally that burned a few years worth of different mixes of wmo, and we all had similar outcomes with fuel components. They got more miles out of pumps, but they were willing to put up with more issues. I know the shape their stuff was in because I worked on it. Both trucks were run until the engines consumed so much crankcase oil from stuck rings that they started using wmo in the crankcase......engines went away pretty quickly after that. They moved on to newer trucks, one of them running wmo in a 7.3 powerstroke until it was done also. The funniest part is hearing them tell people they never had any issues........
 

Far Right

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I’m not driving a Ford, Ive never seen the motors you have, but I’m yet too set up my Ute with 2 tanks, annnnd it’s starting exactly the same, when cold,not 1 rotation more, on WMO,(cut to viscosity with jet fuel) maybe it’s cause it’s a NA engine with higher Comp, maybe glow plugs are in better position, not sure,

I’ve driven and in turn worked on hundreds of pieces of earth working machinery, all running on straight diesel, all the injectors I’ve pulled have had carbon n coking crap on them, some black some greyish white, I’d like too se injector tips from wmo engines too compare, cause straight diesel does block off injectors with carbon,

And I don’t think anyone is saying no harm will come from WMO just trying to get a proper understanding of what harm, and how soon, my black diesel does not stain my fingers, I’d be tempted to run it in a common rail, I just don’t have money for that experiment, I do have coin for a new IP though
 

captain720

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I think the main challenge is as far as I know no one has bought two brand new IDIs and ran one on WMO and one in diesel through the exact same use cases and seen how they compared. Most of us are running high/unknown mileage components until they pop and nobody really knows anything for sure because it’s all old and it’s all varied. But @Jesus Freak s documentation is at least helpful and interesting.
 

Black dawg

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Through most of my wmo use, I lived about 15 miles from work. Ran straight diesel always back and forth from work usually about 200 miles a week, but never far enough to bother switching to wmo tank. The only time I ran wmo was on the weekends, but would travel quite a bit since fuel was pretty cheap that way. Usually would start the trip with both tanks full of wmo mix, and run one tank to nearly empty and then fill that tank with diesel when we got to where we were going. Was pretty common to put on 800-1000 miles in a weekend back then.....Saved a pile on fuel.....

I would replace my pumps when they started showing hot start problems on diesel during my work week. I had one pump that I just dealt with the hot start issues for much longer, and it got to where it had problems starting hot on wmo.....

I saw mentioned earlier about lower mpg on wmo, I never saw any difference, and 90% of those miles were towing.

I am not saying people shouldnt do it, and I would start burning it again in a second if I was driving those kind of highway miles with one again.
 

Far Right

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My 6.5 Has a new IP and injectors with 20’000 km of diesel usage on them, am now running WMO for all driving, short and long, will be putting another tank in soon as stated earlier just to shut down on and then start on diesel, let’s see how it goes
 

Jesus Freak

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I think the main challenge is as far as I know no one has bought two brand new IDIs and ran one on WMO and one in diesel through the exact same use cases and seen how they compared. Most of us are running high/unknown mileage components until they pop and nobody really knows anything for sure because it’s all old and it’s all varied. But @Jesus Freak s documentation is at least helpful and interesting.
That's the ticket! Here's what we'll do: I'll borrow Marty McFly's delorean and some Coin from @Far Right , then we'll travel back to 1986 and buy 2 brand new crew cab duallys at a Ford dealership, I'll tow them back to 2023 here and we'll have us a side by side comparison "Road and Track" style. I'm loving it! And I still have better proof for bigfoot and delorean time travel, I've got pictures.
 

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leswhitt

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I'm not making any definitive statement, I'm saying that y'all are all over the map! And I just want some hard evidence. A couple guys make like it's the death of the IP and injectors, and then @leswhitt comes along and says......ahhhhhh it's fine, just centerfuge it, filter it, cut and call it good. And then here comes Keith Green (who I agree with) and he says, "keep doing your best, pray that it's blessed, and Jesus'll take care of the rest". I don't have any agenda, but I at least got some questionable pictures of bigfoot that might prove he exist and I can't say that about IPs wore out from WMO.
I can't give definitive proof since I'm not logging my miles publicly or with a third party for verification, but I can say this;

-Ford Excursion w/7.3 - 65k miles on centrifuged W85. Single tank with 80% W85/20% diesel, replaced one set of injectors that already had 200K+ miles on them, no other fuel related parts replaced. Pulled the injectors after 15k miles because I installed one incorrectly and didn't have any coking or ash buildup. Glow plugs were fine with nothing noticeable

-Kenworth w/ Detroit 12.7 - 135k miles on centrifuged W85. Single tanks with 30% W85/70% diesel. No fuel related failures however fuel filters are changed every 10k miles so there's some added cost there.

-1989 26' International Uhaul w/7.3 IDI - 25K miles on bag filtered W85. Single tank that was between 85-95% WMO. This was my 1st ever WMO runner and was constantly plugging filters and going through mechanical fuel pumps. Still have the truck but hardly ever drive it any more. Looking forward to refurbring it this summer and seeing what's going on with it.

Buddies early 2000's Dodge w/Cummins 5.9. - 15k miles on jean filtered WMO before pump went out. Pump had 180kish miles and we suspect WMO was the culprit.

Pusher motorhome with Cummins 8.3 - About 10k miles on centrifuged W85, single tank system running 50%W85/50% diesel. Thought I broke something when it wouldn't start below 35 degrees and then figured out it it was gelling from summer diesel.

1998 Pierce Fire truck with DT530 - Only about 2k miles on centrifuged W85. Dual tank system running 70% W85, 30% diesel. 2 micron fuel filter on WMO side, 10 micron on diesel side. Culmination of all I've learned and expecting to run it with no issues.

When I say centrifuged W85, I run it for no less than 30 passes and usually a lot more since I typically make it well before I need it. Take this with a grain of internet salt because since I don't know anyone on here, no one can verify what I'm claiming. For all you know, I could be in my Mom's basement eating cereal and posting drivel but I promise I not. BUT, that's exactly what somebody in their mom's basement would say I guess...
 

leswhitt

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I wondered this also. I always ran one tank of diesel and the other at 50/50. As long as I ran on diesel for 7 miles before shut off, start up was completely normal. 6 miles wasnt enough.........
That's interesting, I have a Pierce fire truck running on WMO and I switch to diesel when I get in the neighborhood. That's only 2 miles though so maybe I oughta up it a bit just for piece of mind...
 

Black dawg

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That's interesting, I have a Pierce fire truck running on WMO and I switch to diesel when I get in the neighborhood. That's only 2 miles though so maybe I oughta up it a bit just for piece of mind...
I have seen others be able to get away with much shorter times back to clear diesel, but on this truck 7 miles was a for sure thing and was easy since that is almost exactly the distance to my house after turning off of the main highway. My other truck, same year same everything (except for smaller return line???) half those miles was plenty.
 

Far Right

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From leswhitt’s experience it shows what I’ve read everywhere that jeans and bag filters will not do the job, making crud oil into something usable takes money and time,
Diesel gelling???? Never heard of it??
Just how cold is it over there from day too day, Ive never been in a house with a heater all our houses are air conditioned, I won’t own a car without aircon,
Could half the troubles actually be from the environment affecting ur mixes, if it’s cold enough to gel fuel then I’d say ur mixes get pretty thick too, ur IP’s will have a flow rate they require just to meet adequate lubrication and pressure hence return lines, if they are working to hard to get this they will absolutely **** themselves early and frequently, and probably cause engine damage as well, I killed a 12v diesel transfer pump collecting oil it only lasted 300L so I’ve had to buy a much more expensive better quality one. This thing pumped diesel for 5yrs every tank I filled on multiple vehicles, 300 of oil n it’s dead, just worked too hard. Our IP’s are way more precious than these transfer pumps, if by chance I’m right on this than maybe you guys need to focus on getting it to flow at a viscosity too that pump, even if you have it cut too W80, maybe ur weather means this is still not enough, maybe??
 

Black dawg

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Yes, viscosity is important. I would run thinner mixes if I was using during winter, but typically all of my wmo use was warmer months.

I was at a friends who ran thick wmo mixes year round, never starting on straight diesel. Basically would leave truck plugged in so that it would start. One cold morning he couldnt get it going (20 degrees or so). I went and ran the ether can for him and we got it running. As soon as it used up the fuel that was at the engine, it quit and wouldnt restart. Found the pump drive shaft twisted off.
 

catbird7

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I'd guess living in warmer location would make a huge difference because viscosity makes a huge difference. Our search engine seems sporadic so I didn't even try, however if memory serves, Mel from Conestoga had a pretty good thread on this. It was years ago and he's a top notch IDI guy. I don't remember what percentage wmo, or how many miles he used it, but after a certain amount of time he disassembled the engine and reported what he saw.
 

The_Josh_Bear

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Diesel gelling???? Never heard of it??
Just how cold is it over there from day too day, Ive never been in a house with a heater all our houses are air conditioned, I won’t own a car without aircon,
Could half the troubles actually be from the environment affecting ur mixes, if it’s cold enough to gel fuel then I’d say ur mixes get pretty thick too, ur IP’s will have a flow rate they require just to meet adequate lubrication and pressure hence return lines, if they are working to hard to get this they will absolutely **** themselves early and frequently, and probably cause engine damage as well, I killed a 12v diesel transfer pump collecting oil it only lasted 300L so I’ve had to buy a much more expensive better quality one. This thing pumped diesel for 5yrs every tank I filled on multiple vehicles, 300 of oil n it’s dead, just worked too hard. Our IP’s are way more precious than these transfer pumps, if by chance I’m right on this than maybe you guys need to focus on getting it to flow at a viscosity too that pump, even if you have it cut too W80, maybe ur weather means this is still not enough, maybe??
Haha that's funny, never heard of diesel gelling. :D You've never even been inside a house with a heater! Different world, brother! Around here daytime highs are mid 40's in F, down to near freezing (32F) overnight which is nothing compared to most of our members.
I googled the temps in SW Montana where @Black dawg is currently. At 3:20pm it's 32*F or 0*C. I'm guessing overnight is 15-20*C lower than that.

As for warming up the fuel, it's only important for starting and the first few minutes. After that the IP is so hot that it's thinning out whatever is in there pretty good. So guys usually have a heater in the tank and some even insulate the lines from the tank and run a coolant line inside the insulation to warm it up faster.
So that takes care of the "while driving" part of the equation. In extreme low temps you can run the fuel line into the transmission cooler portion of the radiator and block off part of the rad, again with insulated fuel lines.

Ultimately you just need something that flows at whatever temp you're in, hence the pure diesel stop/start and mixing a percentage of regular unleaded gasoline into the mix.
 

Old Goat

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Jesus Freak, I got on my travel back machine to get ya a new IDI, but had a glitch in the transfluctor kept throwing a belt. This is the best I could do.



Goat
 

leswhitt

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From leswhitt’s experience it shows what I’ve read everywhere that jeans and bag filters will not do the job, making crud oil into something usable takes money and time,
Diesel gelling???? Never heard of it??
Just how cold is it over there from day too day, Ive never been in a house with a heater all our houses are air conditioned, I won’t own a car without aircon,
Could half the troubles actually be from the environment affecting ur mixes, if it’s cold enough to gel fuel then I’d say ur mixes get pretty thick too, ur IP’s will have a flow rate they require just to meet adequate lubrication and pressure hence return lines, if they are working to hard to get this they will absolutely **** themselves early and frequently, and probably cause engine damage as well, I killed a 12v diesel transfer pump collecting oil it only lasted 300L so I’ve had to buy a much more expensive better quality one. This thing pumped diesel for 5yrs every tank I filled on multiple vehicles, 300 of oil n it’s dead, just worked too hard. Our IP’s are way more precious than these transfer pumps, if by chance I’m right on this than maybe you guys need to focus on getting it to flow at a viscosity too that pump, even if you have it cut too W80, maybe ur weather means this is still not enough, maybe??
Over here in the US, and depending on the state, we have what's known as winter diesel and summer diesel. Diesel fuel is prone to waxing or gelling in cold weather; both are terms for the solidification of diesel oil into a partially crystalline state. Below the Cloud Point the fuel begins to develop solid wax particles giving it a cloudy appearance. The presence of solidified waxes thickens the oil and clogs fuel filters and injectors in engines. The crystals build up in the fuel line (especially in fuel filters) until the engine is starved of fuel, causing it to stop running. Wiki has more information but that's a quick summary.

You're 100% right that viscosity is important and folks in colder environments either get by by adding more RUG, Kerosene, diesel or using various heating methods to heat the fuel. I never ran a heater, I just added an extra touch of kerosene since about 10-15 degrees was the coldest that I was seeing. It would still occasionally act sluggish so I would run with just 3/4 tank so I could add thinning agents as necessary. One of the things I did was to get 1L cup, drill a small hole in the bottom, and then time how long it took for diesel fuel to drain vs how long it took my oil mix to drain. I've been doing it long enough now that I can dip a stick and judge how the oil drips off of it but I have a 250 gal batch cooking now that I probably oughta run the drain test to make sure my "stick estimate" is still accurate.

For the transfer pump, you might think about a gas powered 2" water/trash pump. I've had one for 6-7 years now and it's insanely rugged, will move 50 gals in roughly a minute, and it just laughs at cold oil and sucks it up anyway. I know that wasn't the point you were making and were talking about the IP and oil viscosity, but just thought I'd throw it out there.

And to your first point, you're absolutely right that jeans and bag filters are not a sustainable cleaning method. It'll work in the short term but it'll definitely catch up to you :( I haven't come across any long-term jean success stories yet....
 

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