Jesus Freak's WMO IP thread

Jesus Freak

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So this is for the "Nay sayers" and the uninitiated curious folks like me. But I pulled apart the IP that "went bad" on my dually several months ago after haven drank WMO for 6 or 7 months. This was probably the original IP off the TIDI, so it wasn't WMO that killed it, it was age and WMO may have helped at the end. Eventually l plan on "rebuilding" it, but for now I wanted to look at it and hear about the "wear areas" and such. I want to know how am I destroying this piece of super hardened steel?
I did notice that the screen that is right where the fuel comes in was covered in a fiber type material, it has to be from filter media. I tried to take a picture. The other things I noticed are the inside of the ring where the rollers roll is a little shiny and the inside of the housing itself has a rubb area, and the seal that the filter goes around is kinda crispy cooked.
So, what am I looking for as far as wear the can be attributed to thicker fuel?

My threat!; Y'all better not hijack this thread, this is a serious subject, we're NOT going to digress into electric fuel pumps, and Gear Vendor ODs! I'll tell on you if you do, so be good!
 

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franklin2

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It's not that your fuel is thicker, it's that it's full of crap that causes wear. I do not know enough about the pump to tell you where to look, but common sense to me says if the wmo oil you are running in that precision high tolerance pump is clean enough not cause any wear, then why don't you pour it into your engine and reuse it? If pouring wmo into your engine gives you a uneasy feeling, then I would have the same uneasy feeling putting it in my fuel system.

Lots of people run wmo oil. They know it wears the pump out prematurely and accept that as part of the game of saving money. As high as fuel is now, you could run wmo and put a rebuilt pump on it every few years for $800-$1000 and still come out ahead.

I recommend you let the subject rest and not advertise what you are doing so much. Our country is changing, and they have been going after the diesel tuners and other racers. You know the next thing will probably be people skipping out on the road tax. More than likely if burning wmo becomes wildly popular, they will probably make rules on what the garages do with their wmo and your supply may dry up. Stealth is going to be your friend in this subject.
 

Black dawg

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If you know what the surfaces look like pre WMO you would see that the finish gets more dull, not shiny. Not sure an eyeball can measure the wear
 
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Jesus Freak

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How did your failed pump act?
It may have acted starved, and kind of the heat sink thing, but it's been a bit and I can't remember. And really this particular pump doesn't matter. Its like when you open an engine, we pretty much know the common and obscure wear areas, but it seems like you got to be a member of the freemasons, odd fellows, and skull and bones to understand a IP.
So like I said, there's a thread about doing everything with an IP, I was kinda hoping to make one about the inside of one from the uninitiated vantage point. So as a discovery thing.
Maybe other uninitiats can open an IP of theirs, maybe some of the Freemasons will tell us the secret of the craft, maybe someone will attempt to still my thread with their political views.
Really just wanted to see if we could discuss something different, instead of electric fuel pumps, leaking olives, GP controllers, etc. Not that those discussions are bad, they are necessary, but I long for the different.
 

Black dawg

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Common wear areas with WMO use that I have seen, head to rotor tolerances opening up. If looked at closely you can see areas that the finish looks different (looks dull to me). I dont know whether to blame this on higher viscosity causing heat build up because of lower return flow, or just because of the contaminants in the oil. If it is still dark, it isnt clean, and is clean engine oil out of the bottle clean enough for injection pump tolerances??? Have also seen similar looking wear on the plungers themselves.

Also have seen contamination causing issues with the advance plunger and the internal components that control it.

Have seen many other issues, I will list them as I remember.
Have never seen an inlet screen with much of anything in it........
I have burned enough diesel, before WMO, to know the problems that these pumps have, and that WMO for sure shortens the useable lifespan, and in many cases uses up the head and rotor......where if using diesel fuel only, it would have lasted many more "rebuilds"
 
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Jesus Freak

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I thought the screen being clogged was unusual too. I don't think that happened on my watch. It was fibrous, not chunks of stuff. I'll study on it some more, I appreciate the information.
 

chillman88

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I thought the screen being clogged was unusual too. I don't think that happened on my watch. It was fibrous, not chunks of stuff. I'll study on it some more, I appreciate the information.

I thought I read about some fiber ring in the pumps that wore out. If I'm recalling correctly it may have been a design change at some point. Really don't remember but that may help guide your research?
 

catbird7

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I burned a ton of wmo (50:50 mix) over the years. Two tank system, always started and stopped on reg diesel. Never had any IP problems, not saying wmo doesn't cause IP issues, I just didn't have any. Negative issues were premature failure of the glow plugs and long crank times destroyed starters. Made several attempts at reducing ratio however as long as wmo was in the mix, glow plugs had a shortened service life and starting was difficult. I've completely stopped using wmo, still has same IP and glow plugs and starter issues are gone.
 

ttman4

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Hi in the Cascades, Nearly- Redmond,Oregon
I burned a ton of wmo (50:50 mix) over the years. Two tank system, always started and stopped on reg diesel.
Just curious, what kind of fuel milage you been getting ? Or some you other guyes been getting?
Mileage that WMO/Diesel mix seems to be getting,..... from you guys that run WMO mix.
And what kind mileage you diesel only guys usually get?
 

catbird7

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My experiences with mixed fuel always result in reduced mileage and reduced power. Not a lot however it is noticable. Unfortunately I never actually tracked the difference however guessing it's somewhere around 2 mpg or more. I also periodically run several tanks of unmixed when I notice slower cool starts. Continued running of the mixed fuel always shortened glow plug life.
 

chillman88

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My experiences with mixed fuel always result in reduced mileage and reduced power. Not a lot however it is noticable. Unfortunately I never actually tracked the difference however guessing it's somewhere around 2 mpg or more. I also periodically run several tanks of unmixed when I notice slower cool starts. Continued running of the mixed fuel always shortened glow plug life.

Did you ever mess around with the timing specifically when running the WMO? I'm wondering if a timing change may have made a difference.

I noticed a huge difference in timing on mine when running a strong mix if WMO vs straight diesel. I can't remember exactly how much but I think it was around 10 degrees for me. It could have just been issues with an unknown old injection pump though.
 

IDIBRONCO

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I noticed a huge difference in timing on mine when running a strong mix if WMO vs straight diesel. I can't remember exactly how much but I think it was around 10 degrees for me. It could have just been issues with an unknown old injection pump though.
I don't know much at all about running WMO, but that sounds like an extremely big change in timing to me. Especially seeing that you weren't running straight WMO, but a blend instead.
 

Booyah45828

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That screen being clogged is unusual. I've read that "cheap" filters will have that fibrous material left over internally due to the manufacturing process. It's actually filter material itself, leftover from being cut down to size and then caught in the pleats when they're folded. This was on oil filters though, but I imagine fuel filters could be the same, especially if they're cheap brands.

IMO if you're going to run wmo, it needs to be centrifuged until it's clear to remove the soot. There's been a lot of studies in the last decade showing how corrosive/abrasive soot can be. Unless you consider pump/injector rebuild as a standard maintenance procedure. Franklin mentioned that, and it has merit that throwing a grand at fuel parts is more then offset by running free fuel year round. I know some shops won't take pumps ran on wmo or wvo as a core, so factor that into your costs. But still, most I know will burn more then a thousand bucks in fuel, that's one month to a lot of people.

WMO is no different then dirty fuel. It's not the oil itself, but the contaminants in it that causes issues. Soot is a big issue, as it's sub micron in size and very corrosive/abrasive. It's why centrifugal filters exist, because afaik it's the only way to remove soot from the oil. Centrifugal oil bypass filters have long been a popular add on with semi trucks and owners that are after long service intervals and high mileage engines. And your newer paccar engines actually come from the factory with a centrifugal bypass filter stock.

Wear areas when running wmo are going to be the same as running dirty fuel, in head/rotor and plunger tolerances. Those areas have clearances that are sub .001" IIRC, so any abrasive wear in the pump will be found there. You'll likely see wear throughout the pump though, such as in metering valves, rollers, cam rings, etc. On the db2 specifically builders will see wear in the advance piston and bore, because it's at the bottom of the pump and a place where contaminants will settle out. That's why wes was using a ceramic sleeve on his pumps, to try and stop that wear.
 
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