Dyno results with Moose pump and injectors.

[DragRag]

i think we need to dyno on and off wmo and veggie to compare with dino diesel

Good idea, but I can tell you that wmo has about 5% more btu's then dino diesel so there should not be a loss in hp and torque.

 

[Sycostang67]

Thats awesome, great numbers!

 

[plywood]

Now it's time to try Moose pump with DPS Injectors.

 

[93turbo_animal]

So 204 at the wheels, 15% loss through the drivetrain = 234.6. And there are threads on here figuring 300, 400, 500 hp. Looks like the IDI still has a long way to go. I love the torque number, but a well built small block, mild built big block can make those numbers and run cheaper fuel. I love my IDI, but it's definitely turning into a labor of love.

actually it helps if you know how to calculate percentages. A 15% loss would be 241hp at the flywheel. A carberated gas motor built to make that much torque is gonna get half the fuel mileage and so your cheaper fuel is gonna cost alot more. Also the gasser is gonna make that at a much higher rpm which is a lot less useful in everyday dutys.

 

[dyoung14]

Now it's time to try Moose pump with DPS Injectors.

That would make it worse, the reason the dps injectrors were a little higher is they didnt make the boost out of the turbo effiecient range,

If heath atleast intercools the engine or a little water spray or even a better more effiecient turbo i think we would see some masive numbers for a IDI but even now his should be able to woop a 99-03 psd

Great job heath for making some inpressive numbers!!! keep upgrading your engine your very close to breaking the low HP that our IDI's have,
Great job MEL for making such high quality performance parts!

 

[david85]

At this point I am going to call it.

A 300 Hp IDI exists if we are measuring at the crank. All thats needed right now is to assemble the parts that are already available.

We need a better turbocharger though. All the aftermarket kits for these things just bog down anywhere above 10 PSI unless they've been modded. A real, honest, 15-20 PSI boost package is whats needed to complement the better fuel system and camshaft that are now available.

 

[93turbo_animal]

That would make it worse, the reason the dps injectrors were a little higher is they didnt make the boost out of the turbo effiecient range,

thats just one possibility it was also discussed that the DPS pump might not have been able to supply enough fuel at the preasure needed to run the moose misters at full potential.

but even now his should be able to woop a 99-03 psd

Only if its stock and probably only till the psd spools up which is a lot quicker on the superdutys as opposed to the OBS

The IDI low end grunt is impresive even on a stocker so I'm sure Heaths truck pulls like a son of a gun but these numbers are about 15 years too late when the new trucks are coming out with more HP stock now. As much as most don't want to hear it the 7.3 psd is the new and improved IDI as they are becoming cheaper and easier to work on but with greater potential.

 

[1994IDI]

Thanks very much for the info Heath. That is great setup you've got going. Keep it on the road and have a good time.
I too would like to know your mileage.

 

[hesutton]

What kind of MPG's do you get with that setup if you are going easy on it?

15-16 MPG, but I never really go that easy on the truck.

Now for a cam change

I'm probally going to leave it alone for now. I've got all the power I need with it the way it is and I've got the DT466 repower coming down the line. I'll likely transfer all the fuel goodies from this truck to the crew cab once I start modifiy the truck for the big IH 12 valve.

i think we need to dyno on and off wmo and veggie to compare with dino diesel

Not me. I run straight #2 diesel. Pus, I don't plan on running either waste oils, so, I'll leave that to someone else........... You could do it and post back.

yea the turbo desperately needs to be changed and those numbers i think would have been much higher....

We need a better turbocharger though. All the aftermarket kits for these things just bog down anywhere above 10 PSI unless they've been modded. A real, honest, 15-20 PSI boost package is whats needed to complement the better fuel system and camshaft that are now available.

What sort of smoke was the truck throwing?

Ben and David, I agree. The turbo's from Banks, ATS, Hypermax are not designed to efficiently provide the boost needed to burn the fuel available with the Moose IP and injectors. Yes, an innercooler will help, but a more efficient turbo would be likely yeild better results. The question is which turbo? I don't know.

Smoke..... well it never stopped rolling coal. Again, more boost would have burned that fuel and made more power.


Heath

 

[david85]

If you're getting 16 MPG out of a 4x4 truck thats been lifted over 6" and has no overdrive, I think your are doing pretty good.

We have to do something about turbochargers though, there has to be a way to get the boost we need into these engines.

 

[sootman73]

i've already done the research for turbo's. a T61 compressor with a .85 a/r exhaust side would give 15-25 psi all in the same efficiency range. the surge line on this turbo matches perfectly to what the airflow required for our motors is.

a guy at work and i checked each others math and that turbo is great. i just have too many other things to pay on to put that kind of money into my truck. i posted the chart with some quick-math numbers.

you can see that the middle oval is the highest efficiency range and how the need for air at each boost level keeps the line right in the best efficiency range. the green line is at sealevel and the red line is at i think 4400ft or something close to that...

FYI the "Y" axis shows the boost range(in ATM's) standard pressure at sealevel is 1ATM (i'm only at 660ft so its close enough) 15psi of boost would be at 2.00 ATM on the map. and then the "X" axis is where the real math comes in. For most accurate values we need to dyno a N/A motor to measure the volumetric efficiency. We simply calculated it from nominal values.

 

[Agnem]

Heath didn't mention it, but I think it's worth mentioning that his DPS pump had been timed accurately, while the Moose Pump was timed by ear. IF there was 1 or 2 degrees of retardation, then there was some additional HP that was undiscovered. I thank Heath for taking the time and money to do this comparison, as I know does everyone else. While the numbers may not be fully conclusive, they are as ballpark as any of us need. I think at least now people can have some kind of target numbers for an upgrade justification if any are needed. I know the Moose Truck, similarly equipped but with the intercooler will run up the same hill with equal ez as my stock 02' PSD does. It IS fun to accelerate UP hill.

 

[Darrin Tosh]

Thats awesome Heath, Congrats!

I went through and found my old post when I ran Big Ed on the Dyno,, comparing with and without Propane:

First pull, no LPG
HP 183.15 Torque 325.45

2nd and 3rd pull with LPG

HP 205.35 Torque 362.64
HP 205.51 Torque 361.55

So 22.96 increase in HP
and 37.19 increase in Torque.

The HP Numbers are comparable, but your torque numbers are way higher. Do you think that is because you have a Stick and I have an Auto? I would assume that the stick would transfer the torque a lot better to the rollers than the auto.

So I am thinking you need to throw a little LPG at it!

No doubt if I still had an IDI, It would get Moose Products,..don't think Mel will be making any Moosed Cummins Parts any time soon,....

 

[hesutton]

Mel, that was something I wanted to mention in my original post. The DPS IP was dead on 9.5 degrees BTDC. The Moose is in the ballpark of Ford's timing rec's, but I know it is retarded compaired to the DPS unit as it is not nearly as noisey at idle or when on the throttle. I'll let Mel help me get it back to 9.5 BTDC again in July.

I'd be willing to bet that David Dunbar (Diese Performance Motorsports) could be a regular at our Rallies if there were enough trucks and if they weren't too far from Alabama. The further they have to drive, the more it costs to come out. I asked how many trucks he needed to make an event and he said he's done event with 25-30 trucks before. Heck, that's very doable for an IDI Rally.

Heath

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

I waited for over 6 hours in line to get my turn on the rollers Saturday at the TS Outlaw Event. I was the ONLY IDI in a sea of Dodge Cummins, GM D-max, and a sprinkle of PSD's. I was also the only IDI on the rollers the entire weekend. I couldn't sit in the truck with the dyno operator as only owners who where toggling Nitrous on and off were allowed in the cab. So, I don't know max EGT's or boost on the dyno, but I know the boost was 15+.

Well...... the results are what I was expecting after driving the truck with the complete Moose fuel system.

Moose IP and Injectors: 204.75HP and 461.59lb/ft torque.
Boost pegged at 15+ as I can do that on the street. EGT's?

DPS IP and Moose Injectors: 178.7HP and 387.9lb/ft.
Boost pegged at 15+ and EGT of 850.

DPS IP and DPS Injectors: 185.1HP and 404.0
Boost max of 13psi and EGT at 900.

Three trucks met their doom on saturday. One Dodge Cummins making 550HP (spectacular head gasket failure), two D-max trucks (less spectacular head gasket failures with just coolant bleeding) in the 600-700 HP range, the higher HP of the two D-max being a drag truck running nitrous.

The highest HP winner of the day was believe it or not...... an '05 F250 making 1090+HP with nitrous.

A big congrats to Mel Agne for the performance of his Moose products. Thanks again Mel.

I got lots of questions about the IDI, even from the dyno operators who really were surprised by the performance and especially the torque of a 24 year old truck.

Disclamer: The dyno was a trailer unit, not the same dyno used to get the other numbers. It was a DynoJet unit and it was cooler and less humid than it was last summer at the Rally when we dyno'ed at TS Performance. The numbers are what they are, but it is a bit hard to compair them as 100% accurate as they where not done under the same conditions on the same dyno.

Heath

freaking impressive!!!!
i hope this dyno run gets added with the others here:
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5467

do we get to see a scan of the dyno sheet!
holy crap.nice job building that IDI hesutton!
i shared your results over @ FTE too.