After years of idi ownership...
- Thread starter ISPKI
- Start date
Big Bart
Tow&Slow
Some food for thought.
Always check your timing after rebuilding the engine, changing the IP, or changing the injectors. Also, if you have one you might want to check yearly. Make sure you timing mark bracket on the timing chain cover is not loose or bent, this could give you a false reading. Clean off your damper and your harmonic balancer so you can see the marks and get good readings. There are several ways you can use these tools to get your timing. Below are two.
Set up one - Using the piezo clamp (Injector line clamp.) and the magnetic probe.
Hook the machine to your battery. Now put the switch on “Offset” and set to 20 if not already showing that. (You can use other injectors with a different offset.) Now put the switch on probe. (Magnetic probe.) You will put the magnetic probe in the hole to the right (Clockwise) of the TDC mark. Since this hole is not at/over the TDC mark its actually 20 degrees off of TDC. Thus, your meter will do a 20 degree offset needed when using this probe to calculate true timing. (If the hole was over TDC you would not have an offset.) Make sure your probe is not riding on your crankshaft damper, it will grind it down and perhaps ruin it. One member said he uses a business card, pushes down, and then pulls out the business card for a gap. Then hook the piezo clamp to the #1 injector line as close to the injector as possible, but not on a bend. You will also want to sand off any paint where you plan to hook the piezo clamp. The timing machine will use the difference between the crank position and injector pulse to create a timing number. Now you are ready to set the timing. Remember to move any wires out of the way from moving parts of the engine. You are now ready to time your vehicle.
Set up two - Using the piezo clamp and a timing light. If your magnetic probe is problematic you can do it this way. (You can use your own timing light with advance or buy theirs.)
Set the machine switch to “light”. (As in timing light.) It now works the pickup bar (U shaped looking metal part.) or their factory light. (Which most of us do not have.) Hook the piezo clamp to the #1 injector line as close to the injector as possible, but not on a bend. You will also want to sand off any paint where you plan to hook the piezo clamp. For this instance, we will discuss using a generic timing light with timing advance. Hook up your timing light to the battery and your ignition wire clamp around the u-shaped metal bar in the machine. Set your timing light to 8.5 degrees and check how far off of TDC your timing mark is. (Note there is no 20 degree offset when you do not use the magnetic probe.) You can use the timing advance feature to now figure out how far off your timing is. If your not at TDC with 8.5 degrees of advance on your light, go up and then down on your timing light till it is at TDC. Now you can add or subtract to determine how many degrees you are off.(Then you set the timing light to your desired timing and adjust the IP till you see the timing line on the damper at TDC. You are now ready to time your vehicle. Some folks find some timing lights do not work well with these metal bars, so you may have to try more than one timing light.
You will time the engine at 2,000 rpm and you want to set your timing between 8.5 (Factory) and 9.5 (Many like this better.) degree’s before TDC. (Your meter will correct for the 20-degree offset and show you actual timing.) You are strongly advised by many members of this site to not adjust the IP while the engine is running. Test, shut off, adjust, and re-test till you get it right. Many have killed an IP doing it while running. Move in small dime or 2 degrees of a turn. The front of the timing pump has a square on it you can put a wrench on to turn the IP and hold it till you tighten. As mentioned above, don’t over twist your lines. If you timing is off by more than a couple of degrees and your pump does not want to move easily, you should loosen the injector lines on the IP, adjust the IP, tighten the bolts, tighten the lines and try again. If you are close most folks can just move the IP and all is well. Many above has suggested the special wrenches for loosing the IP, I agree and did the same. All the best!
Always check your timing after rebuilding the engine, changing the IP, or changing the injectors. Also, if you have one you might want to check yearly. Make sure you timing mark bracket on the timing chain cover is not loose or bent, this could give you a false reading. Clean off your damper and your harmonic balancer so you can see the marks and get good readings. There are several ways you can use these tools to get your timing. Below are two.
Set up one - Using the piezo clamp (Injector line clamp.) and the magnetic probe.
Hook the machine to your battery. Now put the switch on “Offset” and set to 20 if not already showing that. (You can use other injectors with a different offset.) Now put the switch on probe. (Magnetic probe.) You will put the magnetic probe in the hole to the right (Clockwise) of the TDC mark. Since this hole is not at/over the TDC mark its actually 20 degrees off of TDC. Thus, your meter will do a 20 degree offset needed when using this probe to calculate true timing. (If the hole was over TDC you would not have an offset.) Make sure your probe is not riding on your crankshaft damper, it will grind it down and perhaps ruin it. One member said he uses a business card, pushes down, and then pulls out the business card for a gap. Then hook the piezo clamp to the #1 injector line as close to the injector as possible, but not on a bend. You will also want to sand off any paint where you plan to hook the piezo clamp. The timing machine will use the difference between the crank position and injector pulse to create a timing number. Now you are ready to set the timing. Remember to move any wires out of the way from moving parts of the engine. You are now ready to time your vehicle.
Set up two - Using the piezo clamp and a timing light. If your magnetic probe is problematic you can do it this way. (You can use your own timing light with advance or buy theirs.)
Set the machine switch to “light”. (As in timing light.) It now works the pickup bar (U shaped looking metal part.) or their factory light. (Which most of us do not have.) Hook the piezo clamp to the #1 injector line as close to the injector as possible, but not on a bend. You will also want to sand off any paint where you plan to hook the piezo clamp. For this instance, we will discuss using a generic timing light with timing advance. Hook up your timing light to the battery and your ignition wire clamp around the u-shaped metal bar in the machine. Set your timing light to 8.5 degrees and check how far off of TDC your timing mark is. (Note there is no 20 degree offset when you do not use the magnetic probe.) You can use the timing advance feature to now figure out how far off your timing is. If your not at TDC with 8.5 degrees of advance on your light, go up and then down on your timing light till it is at TDC. Now you can add or subtract to determine how many degrees you are off.(Then you set the timing light to your desired timing and adjust the IP till you see the timing line on the damper at TDC. You are now ready to time your vehicle. Some folks find some timing lights do not work well with these metal bars, so you may have to try more than one timing light.
You will time the engine at 2,000 rpm and you want to set your timing between 8.5 (Factory) and 9.5 (Many like this better.) degree’s before TDC. (Your meter will correct for the 20-degree offset and show you actual timing.) You are strongly advised by many members of this site to not adjust the IP while the engine is running. Test, shut off, adjust, and re-test till you get it right. Many have killed an IP doing it while running. Move in small dime or 2 degrees of a turn. The front of the timing pump has a square on it you can put a wrench on to turn the IP and hold it till you tighten. As mentioned above, don’t over twist your lines. If you timing is off by more than a couple of degrees and your pump does not want to move easily, you should loosen the injector lines on the IP, adjust the IP, tighten the bolts, tighten the lines and try again. If you are close most folks can just move the IP and all is well. Many above has suggested the special wrenches for loosing the IP, I agree and did the same. All the best!
ComatoseLlama
Full Access Member
Did you ever get the magnetic probe to fit? I'm having the same problem
flatwoods
Registered User
I had trouble getting mine to fit. I took a gun bore brush and cleaned out the timing mark hole.
nitroguy
Full Access Member
Yes...and no.
I got it to fit. Ended up taking a right angle drill with a letter size O drill bit and running it in there. Had to take the vacuum pump off to get access, but once I did, lots of room.
The probe fits in there PERFECTLY now. And if yours is like mine, it's got a spring around the barrel of it that expands to fill any gaps. So, it's definitely very snug, and fits awesome. So that's the win.
The 'no' part of this is that now I'm not getting any reading on my probe. Drill bit, compressed air, some brakleen, more air, rags - it's a clean hole. I measured out my distance using an old receipt folded over on itself 4x so it's super thin but still a gap. Pulled out the receipt, fired it up, all I get is the -20deg reading on the box.
When I shut it down I get a flash of like 208deg or something crazy, which I chaulk up to interference.
So...I don't know if I would call it a success just yet, but my probe fits so that's neat.
I got it to fit. Ended up taking a right angle drill with a letter size O drill bit and running it in there. Had to take the vacuum pump off to get access, but once I did, lots of room.
The probe fits in there PERFECTLY now. And if yours is like mine, it's got a spring around the barrel of it that expands to fill any gaps. So, it's definitely very snug, and fits awesome. So that's the win.
The 'no' part of this is that now I'm not getting any reading on my probe. Drill bit, compressed air, some brakleen, more air, rags - it's a clean hole. I measured out my distance using an old receipt folded over on itself 4x so it's super thin but still a gap. Pulled out the receipt, fired it up, all I get is the -20deg reading on the box.
When I shut it down I get a flash of like 208deg or something crazy, which I chaulk up to interference.
So...I don't know if I would call it a success just yet, but my probe fits so that's neat.
Fixnstuff
Full Access Member
Did you sand the paint off of the #1 cylinder steel fuel injection line where the piezoelectric clamp is to be attached? That location has to be clean bare steel for that clamp to pick up the expansion of the steel line with each pulse of fuel that the IP pumps through it, and if I remember correctly it needs to be attached close to the number one injector on a straight part of the fuel line. I believe that's what the instructions say.
Personally I would use very fine sandpaper and then steel wool to make the surface very smooth without any visible scratches. That piezoelectric clamp is what actually reads the timing at the #1 injector line and that was the most important patented item in this timing device. You could actually time it from any cylinder number fuel line if you can do the arithmetic to calculate the correct offset and set the meter to that offset.
Personally I would use very fine sandpaper and then steel wool to make the surface very smooth without any visible scratches. That piezoelectric clamp is what actually reads the timing at the #1 injector line and that was the most important patented item in this timing device. You could actually time it from any cylinder number fuel line if you can do the arithmetic to calculate the correct offset and set the meter to that offset.
nitroguy
Full Access Member
Yep! It reads rpm great. So injector is sanded, ground is good, battery connection stable, it just didn't pick up timing.
You obviously own a timeless classic!
Fixnstuff
Full Access Member
[/QUOTE]
4x of thin paper IS TOO CLOSE. Should be thickness of 3 'credit cards' taped together. SEE THIS POST:
Timing meter question
-20 deg offset reading shows that the probe is not reading correctly (or in this case probably not at all). The offset display should read 20 (+20).
THAT'S PRETTY QUICK TO DO so try that first and see what happens.
From the instructions it looks like we should use the LOW trigger point with the piezo clamp on #1 fuel line closest to the Injection Pump rather than to the injector.
Your issue however is with the magnetic probe.
There is no 'Figure #3' in the .pdf operating manual and my unit is packed away were I can't conveniently get to it to check the paper manual to see if there is a "Figure #3."
Check your paper manual and see if there is one. Otherwise I think this is an error in the instruction manual.
Fixnstuff
Full Access Member
If resetting that air gap doesn't fix the issue, and when you confirm that here then I have another couple of ideas...
Fixnstuff
Full Access Member
I think someone else mentioned this earlier, or I read it elsewhere but the timing line on the balancer needs to be cleaned out, scraped out with a pick or a nail because the way I understand it, that machined cut line is what the magnetic probe actually detects.
Therefore, having the optimal air gap, as user 'icanfixall' suggested, at 3 business cards thickness really makes perfect sense.
Too close and it probably won't pick it up.
Therefore, having the optimal air gap, as user 'icanfixall' suggested, at 3 business cards thickness really makes perfect sense.
Too close and it probably won't pick it up.
Last edited:
ComatoseLlama
Full Access Member
Did you ever figure your timing light out?
I knocked down the magnetic probe today and got it positioned correctly and had a new issue, the meter is reading 0 no matter what, the RPM gauge was a scrolling 0 from right to left. I also repositioned and re sanded my injector line. I think timing is the cause of my startup smoke so I really wanna get this meter going
ISPKI
Welding/metallurgical engineer/Metalsmith
I Believe the meter reads RPM off the crank balancer so that suggests that your probe is working fine. It would then correlate the RPM reading with the injector pulse to provide degree offset.
I was also wondering, how do you know which way to adjust the IP to adjust timing? My meter read 4.5 but is that negative or positive and which way do I rotate the pump to move it up 4 degrees.
nitroguy
Full Access Member
I wish I had better news for you man. No, I haven't made it back out to the shop to diagnose things. It's running *fine* so I don't have the motivation I should to fix it.
Although, (and maybe I have it wrong!) I thought rpm was based on injector pulse, timing was through the magnetic probe. So since I am seeing rpm, it makes me think probe problem. But if you're getting erratic rpm readings, I'd look at your power, ground, and cleaned-off-enough injector line.
Fascinating. See above, I have it the other way in my mind. Anyone else know definitively which is correct here?
As far as advancing your timing, thats a pivot toward the PASSENGER side. Not much though, the slightest movements make huge changes.
TNBrett
Full Access Member
RPM is read by the injector pulse. If you don’t get a steady reading on cylinder one, you can try number four I believe. It should be 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation from one.
I screwed around one time with my meter trying to figure out what was going on when I replaced the cylinder one injection line with an aftermarket line. It was 6mm not 1/4” and I couldn’t get a steady RPM reading. Put the original line back on and everything worked as it should again.
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I screwed around one time with my meter trying to figure out what was going on when I replaced the cylinder one injection line with an aftermarket line. It was 6mm not 1/4” and I couldn’t get a steady RPM reading. Put the original line back on and everything worked as it should again.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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