After years of idi ownership...

[Fixnstuff]

How are y'all getting the probe in there? Mine wouldn't go in at all, even after hand drilling out with a 5/16s.

EDIT: I SEE NOW FROM BILBO'S POST BELOW THAT I AM ALMOST ASSUREDLY WRONG IN THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE THAT I POSTED IN THIS COMMENT:

There are TWO holes - it goes in the bottom one.

It must go in the OTHER hole toward the top and the lower hole is just a sight hole for the timing mark when using a timing light? I should have noticed the difference at the time but I didn't. END OF EDIT.


SEE THIS TOPIC THREAD:
https://wwEditw.oilburners.net/threads/timing-marks-for-timing-lights-tech-101.60267/#post-700343

(I deleted a sentence here wih the above edit)

For anyone who doesn't know yet:
ALSO you need to fabricate a wrench to loosen the three IP bolts to move the pump if it needs adjustment and re-tighten them. Also you definitely should loosen all of the fuel lines where they connect to the back of the IP so you're not fighting against them and putting unnecessary stresses on them. I've never done this job (yet) but I would expect to loosen the fuel lines at least one full turn, or 1-1/2 turns except for the center fuel feed line and that one won't require as much because it stays in the center of the pump rotation as it's moved for timing. (I would use a flare wrench if I can get one on most of the fittings. I had to tighten the bottom one once and the center one to stop leaks and used a short 5/8 in. open end wrench.
PUT A RAG (or absorbent shop towels) DIRECTLY UNDER THE FITTINGS TO CATCH THE FUEL.

For wrench fabrication ideas, see this thread, from post #1 to #15 https://www.oilburners.net/threads/ip-wrench-cheap-almost-easy.45485/

And see the first part of this video:

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Personally I am going to modify the obstruction wrench as user OLDBULL8 suggested in post #15 in the 'cheap IP wrench' thread. There are a lot of those for fairly cheap on ebay or you can get a whole SET at Harbor Freight for $15.99.

I believe those IP bolts are actually 14mm, and 9/16 in. is slightly larger than 14 mm. so either wrench should work.

 

[Fixnstuff]

How are y'all getting the probe in there? Mine wouldn't go in at all, even after hand drilling out with a 5/16s.

ALSO, IF YOU HAVE A MICROMETER OR CALIPER CAN YOU MEASURE THE DIAMETER OF THE PROBE AND POST IT HERE? It should be just under 0.3125 in. which is exactly 5/16 in. (or 7.9375 mm) If that hole is actually metric then it's 8mm, about 6/100ths inch larger than 5/16. EDIT: THAT'S NOT RIGHT, IT'S ONLY 0.00246063 in. larger than 5/16, or about 2-1/2 thousandths in. larger than 5/16 in. I should not be posting arithmetic stuff when I'm really tired, or even posting for that matter. I've been up all night and it' 6:40 AM here. END OF EDIT.
(you would need an 8mm drill bit or use the 5/16 in. bit and try to ream it out a little bit more.) Try spraying a tiny bit of rust penetrant in there first. Edited to add: Personally I would find an 8mm drill bit somewhere and if it looks like it will fit, USE IT to keep the bore precisely accurate so as no to mess up the bore. (probably won't mess it up with a 5/16 bit but after machinist school decades ago I really like high precision dimensioning in everything I do. (even carpentry)
AND CLEAN SURFACES

I think that IH/Navistar probably made it metric at 8mm since the metric system is an international standard and the more intelligent and easier system of measurements.

 

[bilbo]

I used the hole that sticks out more. I thought that’s the 20 degree offset built into the meter. It was extremely tight and took quite a bit of careful jiggle-pushing to get the probe all the way in. I couldn’t think of a way to say that without it sounding inappropriate so there it is! Also I had to use the drill bit and then blow it out with air a few times.

 

[TNBrett]

How are y'all getting the probe in there? Mine wouldn't go in at all, even after hand drilling out with a 5/16s.

The probes seem to be a little too big on some. I think they may be 8mm instead of 5/16”. Anyway, on mine I filed the probe down to 5/16”. I also cleaned the hole out really well. I used a drill bit by hand, then progressed to a piece of 5/16” rod with valve lapping compound. Then cleaned up with a nylon brush and hosed out with wd40.

For filing the probe, first gently remove the little spring clip. One of my work benches has 2x6’s for a top. I set the probe in the joint between two boards, and filed lengthwise as I rotated the probe. I used a good sharp flat file, and cleaned up with some emery cloth. After test fitting it, reinstall the spring clip.

I think there may be a fair amount of variation from engine to engine and maybe from one probe to another. It seemed like the majority of what I filed off was burrs or deformation from the machining/manufacturing of the probe. Furthermore when I was test fitting the probe, I used a spare front cover I had. Once I was able to get the probe into that cover, I still had to take it down a little bit more before it would fit into the engine that’s in my truck.

I hope this helps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fixnstuff]

I used the hole that sticks out more. I thought that’s the 20 degree offset built into the meter. It was extremely tight and took quite a bit of careful jiggle-pushing to get the probe all the way in. I couldn’t think of a way to say that without it sounding inappropriate so there it is! Also I had to use the drill bit and then blow it out with air a few times.

I am sure now that you are correct and I was WRONG so I edited my post about that which is a couple of posts before yours.

I was also going to post a reply to you saying that the meter reading you got should be very accurate, if you had the offset set to "20" when you timed it. This is THE SAME IDENTICAL METER THAT INTERNATIONAL USED ON THESE ENGINES (at their service centers etc.)

I just saw less than an hour ago that someone in 'THE TIMING REGISTRY' bought one from an International Harvester Service Center like a couple of years ago and here is a quote from the 'ABOUT US' page at the DTI sales website:

About Design Technology
Established in 1978 by Edward Yelke, Design Technology, Inc. initially focused on the design and development of timing instruments for diesel engines. Products were developed for major local OEMs such as International Harvester and J.I. Case.

Ed's patented piezo transducer became the technology around which the diesel testing units were designed.

Source: https://tinytach.com/about

I was also going to comment that your timing seems to be too far advanced and I was going to ask if your truck is seemed excessively noisy with clatter. That's because I believe it was user Macrobb who stated in a post here or at FTE that as the timing gets too far advanced, they get louder (referring to the clatter) Something to that effect.

Mine seems too loud and I think the timing is probably a bit too far advanced.
I bought one of these meters on ebay and it is arriving today, UPS. So after I read the manual I will probably hook it up to see where the timing is right now and I'll re-adjust it later if necessary.
MY TRUCK RUNS GREAT, starts on first engine revolution and it LIKE TO RUN FAST on the highways. Like 75 miles per hour and that is with a C-6 and 3.55 rear end gears, pulling 2400 lb. loaded 5 ft. x 10 ft. utility trailer with about 850-1000 lbs of red bricks and some steel in the bed of the truck AND I had NO PROBLEM accelerating to 85 mph and I think it would have gone 95 mph with NO PROBLEM on the flat highway on that 300 mile trip. I got 11.9 mpg running it fast like that. I had to keep up with the person I was following or I would have not known how to get to his ranch. I was hauling his stuff for him and ran i pretty had up over some mountain passes. On the way back, empty truck bed and empty trailer I got 19.8 mpg. fuel use and I think I could squeak out better fuel mileage.

That was my FIRST actual test run on the open highway and up and over some mountain passes with a load and I was VERY PLEASED with that performance. This truck is going to do very well for the purposes I bought it for and I'm very happy about that.

 

[Fixnstuff]

I edited my posts number 46 and 47 to make some important corrections. They are easy to spot, EDITS are in bold type.

The following is also an EDIT to THIS post: I am SORRY for being confused, and writing long posts. I have to take prescription opioid pain pills for the time being and they ruin my concentration, and mental functioning as well as causing insomnia and that's a bad combination of effects from which to write good and accurate posts to any forum.


I'm going to get some sleep by taking a sleep aid pill with my alarm clock set to go off before the UPS truck arrives with the DTI unit I bought from an ebay listing and then I'll measure the diameter of the Magnetic TDC Probe, that's what DTI calls it.
AT LEAST I WILL KNOW WHAT SIZE DRILL BIT TO USE.

I looked at the DTI sale website again and this is what it says about THIS probe:

Magnetic TDC Probe $65.00

Product Overview

For use on engine with the mag probe tube by front damper pulley

source: https://tinytach.com/timing-equipment
It's the 8th item down on that web page.

So that is the answer. There is only ONE magnetic TDC probe offered so "one size fits all."

That solves that question. That means that the mag probe tube by the front damper needs to be cleaned out if the probe doesn't fit. It may have some baked enamel engine paint in it and/or some build up of old oil and dirt.

Knowing the actual diameter of the probe will at least lead us to the correct drill bit size
If the probe is 8 mm and the probe tube is 5/16 in. then to carefully drill it out with an 8mm bit would only remove 1 and 1/4 thousandths of an inch off of the wall thickness of the tube.
Or conversely remove 1 and 1/4 thousandths of an inch off of the radius of the probe. That's a very very small amount.

 

[bilbo]

I set the timing back a bit today and now it’s at 9.5 degrees. It seems maybe a little bit less clackety, but this is my first IDI so I don’t have a great frame of reference. One thing I did notice is the engine braking is a lot more gentle. Shifting and everything just feels more refined. I think I will leave it like this and see how it goes with fuel economy. I’m glad this thread motivated me to check into this.

 

[Fixnstuff]

I finally got some sleep so I feel sane again. I received the DTI timing unit via UPS about an hour ago.
THE MAGNETIC PROBE DIAMETER MEASURES
EXACTLY 8.00 MM.

 

[flatwoods]

It’d be like that scene from that movie, knight and day, with Cameron Diaz as she was taking a bunch of carburetor parts on the airplane

I flew from Kentucky to Shreveport Louisiana with a duffle bag full of mass air flow sensors for the Chevy/GMC canyon/colorado and TSA never said a word.

 

[Laine D]

I flew from Kentucky to Shreveport Louisiana with a duffle bag full of mass air flow sensors for the Chevy/GMC canyon/colorado and TSA never said a word.

You must’ve needed those sensors pretty badly

 

[flatwoods]

You must’ve needed those sensors pretty badly

GM needed them at the truck plant. At the time I worked for a Japanese company that made the sensors and each one was calibrated to a different spec. GM was testing the trucks to different air flows.

 

[cozinsky]

How are y'all getting the probe in there? Mine wouldn't go in at all, even after hand drilling out with a 5/16s.

I had trouble too. I used a 5/16 bit by hand until I could easily slide it in and out but the probe still wouldn't go. I ended up using a 1/4" carbide burr on a die grinder and carefully reamed the hole until it fit.

 

[nitroguy]

Than

I had trouble too. I used a 5/16 bit by hand until I could easily slide it in and out but the probe still wouldn't go. I ended up using a 1/4" carbide burr on a die grinder and carefully reamed the hole until it fit.

Thanks for all the tips guys! Mine must have a smaller diameter access or something. I've got a drill the next size up in my index , Size "O" that's a .316. I might see if that opens it up just enough to get it in there. My probe has expanding springs on the end of it, so I imagine it'll take up any slack in there, right?

 

[ISPKI]

Wow I didn't expect this topic to get this good. I finally got my meter out and checked my new super duty: Pearly Edwards.

At idle rpm (730ish) timing came in around 8.5.

At 2000rpm, timing plummeted to 3.9. also interesting that the timing shifted to about 2 during slow acceleration. Not sure if this is a fluke or interference but I tried revving very slowly up and down and it seemed to hit under 2.0 around 1000rpm. The engine also feels rough in that range.

 

[ISPKI]

You must be registered for see images attach

Caliper is calibrated to +/- .001. Probe measures just a hair over 5/16. I used a drill bit by hand and it didn't bite into the TOP hole but did pull out a ton of grit.

How the heck does one upload a video?