Transmission shop near Yakima? (or Puyallup)

[Cubey]

Well that makes sense as to why people say to install the temp sensor in the pan or the return line. Good thing you've got that other pan coming with the second gauge. You'll be able to get a good delta temperature off the two gauges.

Yep. That's why I want to leave the B&M one on the hot side too, it can display much higher (350*F) than the Auto Meter one (250*F). If the pan temp climbs to 200'ish and keeps creeping up, then I might need to start looking for a place to pull over ASAP because the cooler probably isn't keeping up.

It's a bit scary seeing the hot side creep into the red zone, but... it's a slippy C6 converter pushing a massive brick, so it's gonna be hot. B&M said put it on the return for a reason, they know people would be freaking out on the hot side. To be honest, I didn't even look at the instructions (beyond the wiring diagram) until after it was put on.

In the meantime, as long as the fluid isn't getting dark from overheating, I guess it's fine.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

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the ADD area

I still don't see any areas where it says add. I just see the mark/hole, not a whole area.

 

[Cubey]

I still don't see any areas where it says add. I just see the mark/hole, not a whole area.

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[Booyah45828]

I guess where you place it is based on what you're after. I monitor converter out because I want to make sure I don't cook the transmission fluid. Anything over 300 and the fluid is cooked and it needs replaced. The converter out will be the hottest spot for the transmission fluid. If that's running hot, you most definitely can do something about it, it's called backing out the throttle. Heat production in the converter is directly related to the load applied. Decrease the load, and production goes down.

I guess I trust my coolers to do their job, and that I don't need to monitor them. If you don't trust them, or want to see how efficient they are, then you can monitor the cooler back to the trans. But if the cooler quits cooling for whatever reason, it will show up quickly in the converter out temp. Trust me, if your pan temp is hot, the converter out will be hotter. The converter out will never be cooler then the pan temp.

I don't like pan temps, because if the sender isn't submerged(low on fluid) it's reading can possibly be inaccurate. You'll know very quickly if the converter out line is seeing air instead of fluid.

 

[Cubey]

I don't like pan temps, because if the sender isn't submerged(low on fluid) it's reading can possibly be inaccurate. You'll know very quickly if the converter out line is seeing air instead of fluid.

Well, the pan I'll be using will be a deep one, so probe will be lower than normal. As in, it'll have a couple extra quarts below the normal pan. The dipstick would have to be crazy low, if not bone dry, before it could get low enough to not register on a probe in the pan.

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Oh and I just noticed, by going to Holley's website, it comes with a magnetic plug and that rubber/metal type of drain plug gasket, plus a better pickup filter (currently about $20 to replace). The pan may help a bit with cooling too.

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Oh and what do ya'll think. The drain plug is still seeping a bit it seems, and it looked black. It looks like it seeped out clutch material in the fluid when I checked it earlier ... unless it was rubber from the gasket after ATF got ahold of it.

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[Cubey]

I found this interesting bit of info. How accurate it is in regards to the 300*F bit? Dunno. Valvoline MaxLife ATF (but of course, I used non-MaxLife Valvoline) claims it can stand 280*F for an hour. Although, maxlife is full synthetic and non-Maxlife isn't?

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I was a Ford automatic transmission engineer and engineering supervisor from 1988-2007. During my career I worked on calibration (the "chip"), OBDII, and transmission cooling.

The out line from the trans is the output of the torque converter. This is the hottest part of the trans.

When the torque converter is unlocked, and in a C6 that's all the time, the torque converter makes A LOT of heat. If the trans is working hard it makes even more heat. Temperatures out of the torque converter can easily reach 300°F. That's why there is a cooler, so that the pan temperatures stay where they belong, below 220°F.

If you see temperatures up to 300°F in the line to the cooler, the only thing you can do to lower that temperature is reduce the load on the trans. Adding more cooling will have a minimal effect on this temperature. It will lower the pan temp, but it won't reduce the work the torque converter is doing, and work causes heat.

Those people that believe that ATF is trashed in 1500-2000 miles at 300°F are reading a chart that has been floating around the internet since there was an internet. It was outdated when the internet was invented, but that doesn't stop people from quoting it as gospel. I'm sure it was accurate back in the 60's, but fluid technology has inproved quite a bit since then. Modern fluids can tolerate 300°F for a long, long time.
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Source: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1145999-temp-gauge-on-c6-test-port-2.html#post11603317

 

[Cubey]

Finally, the post got approved above. (two posts up with the pics of the B&M pan)

I'm still searching for a shop that can/will flush the cooler. I'm hunkered down for a week at a campground so maybe I can find someone who will do it next week. I just sent emails to 2 shops asking if they can/will do it.

I guess failing that, I'll get two cans of Kooler Kleen and hope it does a good job. At least I'll have my nice little 3gal Craftsman oil bath air compressor (just like Nero's ) back finally, out of storage, for blowing out the cooler myself.

 

[Nero]

Hey that little compressor works great for a lot of stuff! Did you ever get an email back from reliable about waiving the radiator cooler?

 

[Cubey]

Hey that little compressor works great for a lot of stuff! Did you ever get an email back from reliable about waiving the radiator cooler?

Yeah it does.

Nope. I have been watching the spam folder too, in case it were to end up there. I don't think he likes me very much.

I guess if no shops want to touch it, I'll just do it myself. I guess I'll go ahead and order an in line magnefine filter from amazon too, just in case I end up using that instead of the spin on filter head. Costs me nothing to return and it's $10 less than Napa. Putting that on the return line after the coolers would catch any steel bits that might still be in the radiator's cooler after flushing it out. I'll get that ordered now so it'll be there waiting for me.

 

[Booyah45828]

He's right, in that the common chart that's shared is incorrect, you can run over 160 and get 100k+ miles out of a trans. But I still wouldn't suggest going over 300. Over 300 the base oil might be fine, but the additives might not be. And at 300 degrees, the oil isn't lubricating or cooling much of anything either. Front input shaft seal wouldn't be too happy either.

But he's wrong in that the converter doesn't take room temp fluid and launch it over 300 just because you're loaded heavy. Typically, if you have pan temps around 180, converter out, no matter how heavily loaded, will stay below 300. Unless the converter is mismatched to the application(too high of stall), or your sitting there doing a converter stall test.

Moral of the story, is like he said, the converter out is the hottest part of the transmission. In my experience, so long as your below 300 there, pan temps will be fine, and your transmission will be happy.

 

[Cant Write]

Why don't you buy 2 brass plugs that fit the radiator cooler; fill it with simple green full strength (biodegradable); cap it off, and run it through a few heat cycles and maybe even some driving to let it slosh around in there. Or as a different poster above mentioned to run a 12v pump and cycle sanisol (spelling) or simple green both ways.....

Also, regarding checking trans temp, this "dipstick" has had a few tough-to-read dipsticks. What I found worked best for me was to rub spit on the portion of the dipstick you are trying to read. In, and out, and the oil/spit usually make a perfectly visible easy-to-read line. That is my go-too anyway.

 

[Cubey]

One shop actually replied:

"We have a hot flusher for flushing transmission coolers. The cost for flushing is &129.95. I would like to talk to you about flushing. Please give me a call."

But then he isn't answering the phone, I just get an answering machine.

So, yeah, I think I'll just spend the $35 for two cans of Kooler Kleen and do it myself for $95 less.

 

[Cubey]

DOH!!! the cooler is upside down and is therefore probably not working at full capacity.

Over on another forum where I was getting more opinions about the cooler/temperature, someone caught that. The Hayden cooler had no instructions and I mounted it just like the factory one, so how was I to know?

B&M cooler instructions they showed:

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[Cubey]

Funny how the trans shop owner said nothing, i even pointed out the cooler lines pointing down. Yeah, I think he doesn't like me at all. That or he's as clueless as i am.

I wonder how much damage has been done because he refused to flush the rad cooler and brushed me off like he did.

I'm scared to drive it anymore as it is but i have to. I'm out in the woods and my scooter isn't reliable enough to ride 22 miles round trip. If it decides to crap out because of a dirty carb (happened once, only a mile away thankfully) I'd be royally screwed unless I'm within 3 or so miles of camp here.

I can either rig up scrap fuel hoses here or leave it until for 11 more miles on the back roads between here and the parts store. Then wait an hour or two for things to cool off so I don't burn myself on hot ATF before I take it apart, flip it over, and run longer, proper oil cooler hoses. At least it isn't hot here.

 

[Cubey]

Well, I got it flipped here at the campground. I had enough scrap hose and a way to do one splice on each line to extend the existing hoses. I laid out a tarp and made sure it was under the hoses/lines and used a drain pan, so nothing spilled on the ground. I saw the camp host out making her rounds on foot this morning. She mentioned she was doing it before the rain, so I figured she wouldn't be out walking around so I went ahead and did it. Other campers walked by, but no one said anything to me about it and the camp host didn't come rushing over to complain, so I guess I "got away with it". I need to reattach the grill up top, but it's otherwise attached so it looks fine.

The hot line (driver side) has a straight barb union (kind of hiding and hard to reach) and return line (passenger side) has a ball valve for a union, because it's all I had to fit the line. But I taped open the valve with electrical tape and also put a zip tie around it, so it can't possibly close itself. I have the valve there up high, where I can easily reach it by taking off the grill. I think I'll put the Magnefine filter there when I get my hands on it in a couple weeks. That's the return line, after all, which is where I want the filter. There's unused bolt holes in the support bracket where I can run zip ties through to secure it in place, so it doesn't bang against the condenser and grill. I might go ahead and replace the spliced hot line hose with a single piece of hose, so there's two less possible failure points (two hose clamps).

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That's how much fluid came out of the cooler/steel lines from the trans. Seems like not a lot? Maybe 1/3 to 1/2 a quart at most. It only got a few tiny drops of rain while I carried it from under the front end to set it inside my cargo trailer for the pic, and the pan was dry and fairly clean, so that's all ATF. But of course, it's gonna get dumped in an oil jug and fresh will be put in the trans.

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I started up the engine and idled it for about 5 minutes. Before, it didn't seem to take long for the reading to up to roughly 130F. Today, it's about 10F degrees cooler out (and drizzling rain), and it barely got a hair over 100F at idle. So, I'm guessing it should work much better now, if that's any indication. I still won't be driving any until next Thursday, so I'll report back about driving temps that day sometime.

The hot line going into the cooler never felt warm, even touching the aluminum barb fitting where you'd expect to feel some heat.

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