Somebody shoot me!

[vegas39]

I just spent the whole day yeasterday removing the block from my 89, removed the complete good running motor from my 86 and transplanted it into my 89.

Now heres the problem. The engine is spraying water out of the back of the passenger side head and ******* a little out the exhaust, this is the 6.9 that we put ARP studs in about 40,000 miles ago.
My cousin in law did most of the work and I remember, he did not pre stretch the studs as ARP recommends. He was told that by using the ARP assembly lube, that the prestretch tighten and loosen several times, was not needed.
I was driving the old 86 for the past two weeks with no issues, until we pulled it and stuck it in my other truck. How could a head gasket go so bad by just transfering the engine from one truck to another.

So I pulled the head off today and can see where the coolant was leaking past the gasket to the outside of the block and I also saw its path into the cylinder.
I am going to re install the head tomorrow but am curious how to re use these ARP studs, do I just reinstall them and do the torque sequence? I dont have any ARP assembly lube.

I also remember that we didnt tighten these much more than 80 pounds when we installed them a few years ago, should I go tighter?

Last, should I retourque the other head before it gives a problem? Thanks!

 

[79jasper]

I would probably check the other side also.
Not sure that I've ever heard of that "stretch sequence."
But then again, I don't keep up with the 6.9 stuff.
80 ft/lbs sounds low to me.
Strangely, that's also where the lifting lug is. By any chance, was the head alignment dowel missing?

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[IDIoit]

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?71876-Torque-Spec&highlight=torque+specs

 

[vegas39]

I would probably check the other side also.
Not sure that I've ever heard of that "stretch sequence."
But then again, I don't keep up with the 6.9 stuff.
80 ft/lbs sounds low to me.
Strangely, that's also where the lifting lug is. By any chance, was the head alignment dowel missing?

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No lifting lug back there, must have been removed when the turbo was installed. I have a lifting lug near the fuel filter and one near the rear ont the driver side.
All I can figure is the stress of lifting it and moving it around changed something somewhere but I honeslty dont think the studs were tight enough.

 

[79jasper]

Quick search.
80 is way low. 75 is the factory head bolt spec.
And I saw the procedure you mentioned. Using the lube does NOT mean you can skip steps.
This is exactly why you follow manufacturer (arp) instructions. Lol
I saw mention of going to at least 100 ft/lb.
Weirdly, the 7.3 I supervised a stud install on, that stretch sequence wasn't mentioned.

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[Can30Diesel]

Wasn't the whole idea of the ARP studs is that they don't stretch like the torq to yield or factory bolts? I might be wrong here..

 

[Dave Barbieri]

You're right, ARP studs don't stretch. Several years ago, the accepted procedure for installing the studs was to install the heads and torque the nuts down in sequence, loosen them, then retorque. This procedure was repeated three to five times, depending on your upper body strength, your perseverance, and your beer supply. What you were doing was cycling the fasteners to smooth off the threads and mate the nut threads to bolt threads. Sorta like breaking in a new engine. Good idea, but what a pain in the butt!! There was a shortcut: Use the ARP ultra-lube stuff and eliminate this whole procedure:

http://arp-bolts.com/p/arpultratorque.php

Here's Zac Kimball's response, as posted by one of our members:

Quote Originally Posted by '94IDITurbo7.3 View Post
i emailed ARP about the torque the nuts then back off and retorque multiple times b/c i have heard to do that numerous times but never really understood the need to do that even though it has been explained......

Eric,
If using the ultra torque lubricant it is not necessary to cycle or re-torque the nuts. However (if being used as head studs) the head gasket manufacturer might recommend specific re-torque instructions as the re-torque at this point is to compensate for the compression of the gasket and does not have anything to do with the pre load on the fastener.

Regards, Zac Kimball
Automotive Racing Products
(805) 339-2200 ext. 206

basically, the only need for doing this would be if the OEM calls for it to properly squish the HG if you will. doing this will have no effect on the studs.


You can find the entire thread here:
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?63500-Studly-advice&highlight=arp+head

When I rebuilt my engine two years ago,I used the ARP lube and ran my studs down finger tight into the block. I actually did torque down the head nuts, then loosen them and retorque them once. After that, I rechecked the torque (in sequence) later that afternoon and the again the next morning. I figured this would give the head gasket a chance to settle and compress. Maybe it was overkill, but I figured it couldn't hurt. As for the torque value, ARP sez 80 lbs/foots. I used 90. Just to be sure. (I know, overkill....)

 

[Agnem]

Typical torque value if I recall for standard head bolts in a 6.9 turbo application is 85 foot pounds. So you should have that at least. If ARP studs have been taken to 90 sucessfully, I would use that, but DO MAKE SURE your torque wrench is accurate. I recommend getting it re calibrated with teamtorque.com

 

[icanfixall]

Kenny you have something slightly wrong in your post. We don't pre stretch the studs. The tightening and loosening is to break down the friction between the threads, nut contact with the washers and maybe the contact with the washer and the heads. I was the member that talked with ARP bout this and this was their engineers suggestion. The studs don't stretch like a bolt. Now about the alignment dowel. You need that for sure. You can make one from some copper pipe or tubing too. All it does is align the head to the block. It has nothing to do with strength of holding the head on the block. Even wood will work too. Just made it from a hard type wood not some soft stuff like pine. Actually teak or lignum vitae (ironwood" comes to mind. Now finally the torque and the wrench. As Mel posted already. You need to have them calibrated before use. If you used it weekly them once a year calibrate it. But once every 3 4 5 years wont do. They are a precision tool and never leave them set to high lbs either. That ruins the spring. ONLY the bar type torque wrench will not need to be calibrated by us. Your torque used was not enough. Sorry to say that too this long after the repair out here. Call ARP about the lube and torque.

 

[vegas39]

It is supposed to rain here later today and I would like to get the head put back on this morning, do I need to use that ARP lube again, or am I ok to put it back together? I ran these studs for 40,000 miles.

What about the other head, should I re torque it? I'm definitely not pulling it off.

 

[Hydro-idi]

When I installed my 6.9 arp head studs a couple months ago, instructions on box said the final torque # was 80ft. Lbs. No pre-stretching of studs was specified.

 

[IDIoit]

ive always been told, when you do head gaskets, its a good idea to put it through a couple of heat cycles and retorque the heads.

 

[vegas39]

Kenny you have something slightly wrong in your post. We don't pre stretch the studs. The tightening and loosening is to break down the friction between the threads, nut contact with the washers and maybe the contact with the washer and the heads. I was the member that talked with ARP bout this and this was their engineers suggestion. The studs don't stretch like a bolt. Now about the alignment dowel. You need that for sure. You can make one from some copper pipe or tubing too. All it does is align the head to the block. It has nothing to do with strength of holding the head on the block. Even wood will work too. Just made it from a hard type wood not some soft stuff like pine. Actually teak or lignum vitae (ironwood" comes to mind. Now finally the torque and the wrench. As Mel posted already. You need to have them calibrated before use. If you used it weekly them once a year calibrate it. But once every 3 4 5 years wont do. They are a precision tool and never leave them set to high lbs either. That ruins the spring. ONLY the bar type torque wrench will not need to be calibrated by us. Your torque used was not enough. Sorry to say that too this long after the repair out here. Call ARP about the lube and torque.

Alignment dowel isnt missing, they are on there. Should I go tighter than the recommended 80 lbs? I have a paper showing the torque pattern but dont have the torque increments, do you know off hand? Thanks.
I went to ARP's site and they said blue locktite is fine for the studs into the block.

 

[TahoeTom]

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This page is from a 7.3 manual with higher torque than a 6.9, but the sequence is the same. For the 6.9 the steps are 40ft-lb, 70 ft-lb, following the pattern, then 80 ft-lb again following the line sequence two times. My ARP studs came with instructions to torque to 80 ft-lb using their ultra-torque lube on the top threads and both sides of the washer. I believe this results in a greater clamping force than a stock head bolt torqued to 80 ft-lb. I didn't over torque mine. So far so good. I wonder if using the rear of the head as a lifting point overcame the clamping force of the studs. I had never considered that, but now it seems possible.

 

[vegas39]

What about head gaskets? I have a new 7.3 set, will they fit this 6.9?