SCAQMD Citation For Smoke

[RLDSL]

OK, I think the mindless ticket stuff against a diesel is pretty silly, those are *supposed* to go to folks who have gas burners that just happen to be the best oil burners in town and are setting off a mosquito fog in an area where it's not needed, those idiots aren't supposed to be calling in on diesels that are perfectly legal and running within design limits. All they are doing is wasting the already stretched beyond limited financial rescources of that state having folks running around after legal vehicles operating within design parameters for their model year and someone ought to bring THAT to public attention.
NOW... that said, most of you folks grew up somewhere where air is clear, I didn't, I grew up in that disaster called LA and the air out there was worse in the 50s and 60s than it is now and there's a reason for it that you people might not want to admit, but that SCAQMD isn't just all hot air( pun intended) those of you who grew up being able to run places, instead of having air so brown that you couldn't see 50 feet and being forced to run the track in school in a smog alert while 18 guys keel over and have to have oxygen brought out, unless you grew up in those conditions, you had best just keep your mouths shut because you don't have the slightest clue about what you are talking about.
You know the burn you get if you manage to get something like brake cleaner in your eyes...imagine that feeling just walking out the front door. Been in a shop where 10 engines are running and someone forgot to open the doors or turn on the pipe exhaust system for about an hour, to the point where the eyes are burning the frontal headache starts and the lungs are burning... imagine living in that every day.
It used to be so bad they even joked about it in an episode of Batman, one of their ways of doing the dynamic duo in was to immerse them in a tank of imported LA smog. Not so funny if you lived in the stuff. I still have a button from the olympic games in LA depicting the official runner, he had a gas mask on. The mayor asked business to shut down during the games so it would cut the smog level down so the athletes wouldn't all keel over. The place was HELL.
Over the years the combination of regulations on business and changes in vehicle emissions have made the place to where you can almost breath the air. At least the last time I flew in there the haze wasn't fully filthy brown anymore ( it was still enough to scare the the lady in the seat next to me on the plane who had never seen anything like it) It's cleaner now than it was when I was a kid By miles. I'm still glad I left there over 25 years ago and I rarely go back for anything. I've got a niece getting married in August and I'm really not looking forward to spending time out there

It's not just the hippies that have gone for the emission regs in that state, it's almost anyone who was actually born there and had to live through the swill and is suffering from the long term health effects.You will be hard up to find many who were actually born there who didn 't develop some kind of respiratory or heart disease

The big problem comes up when some of the nutsos start painting with a wide brush and remember the old diesel buses of the 60s ( they used to have a bunch of filthy pigs with detroits that would lay out a cloud at every light) and try to put modern diesels in with polluters and outlaw them when the rest of the world has already figured out that they pollute less than gas burners when they should be encouraging new clean diesels instead of going hybrid and plug in crazy which especially the plug ins still rely on dirty coal plants which completely defeat their goal.

 

[SparkandFire]

I grew up just up the road from LA (Bakersfield) and southern Kern county now has the WORST air quality in the country (even more so than LA!) I agree with you 100%, they do need to regulate the air quality in areas that have no geographical relief. Believe it or not, most parts of the country have just as many if not more emmisions, it's just that the geography allows for more air movement and therefore less "air pollution."

We are simply overpopulated to the point that there are few options left to try and control the air quality. A great deal of business have already left this state, and many more will follow.

You just can't win!

 

[david85]

RLDSL,

I really don't want this to get heated or personal, but with respect, I do have a clue.

I had a stop over in LAX on a recent trip overseas. The brown haze is still there unfortunately. I should add I was traveling during what was technically their winter so it would likely be worse in the summer even than what I saw. Had to walk breifly outside from tom bradly international to terminal 1. Barely a 5 minute walk outside and 2 hours later my throat was still feeling a little sore so I got a taste - litterally - of what you are talking about.

As I said earlier there is a place for some regulation, but I don't think LA is a model example of effective clean air regulations if the air quality is to be taken as proof.

It should be noted that the local climate around LA has always been prone to air stagnating instead of moving on and dispersing. Even natives refered to it as the valley of smoke even before white people settled so smog down there has always been a problem long before the first diesel clattered to life. Simply put, its a bad place to have that many people and no amount of regulation can change that.

I don't agree with what you say about electric cars though. They are not a silver bullet solution but they do have a role to play. Having built one I feel confident saying that.

 

[The Warden]

Just wanted to state for the record that, regarding the fireplaces and wood-burning stoves, as I understand it, they make an exception if the wood-burning stove or fireplace is the only way of heating your home. Also, FWIW, the whole "Spare the Air" day concept has to do with valleys and a lack of wind...get the weather conditions just right, and the air just hangs there and you end up with a smog bowl...and they're trying to limit that to the best of their ability. I'm not making a moral judgment either way, but just wanted to say that it's not completely arbitrary...

IMHO RLDSL's post is right on the money!! Things are getting to the point where they're going overboard (and I really don't like the fact that CARB has no oversight whatsoever), but I don't want to think about what the air would be like now if none of the air-quality regulations had ever been passed. IMHO people need to find a happy medium, and instead people on both sides are just digging deeper into their trenches and refusing to compromise or work together. This will only be bad for the country in the long run, IMHO...

Sorry...I'll get off my soap-box now. I try to keep my views to myself, but sometimes I can't help it...

 

[SparkandFire]

Tim, I think if there were no regulations, things would be exactly as they were in the 60's (as RLDSL said)

There is a point where the air reaches a saturation level and the density changes, then the pollutants will either precipitate out, or they flow over the mountains and out towards Arizona. I spoke with a scientist with the BAAQMD about this and he's the one who pointed this out, the concept is called "stratospheric saturation point" or something like that. Point is, there is a maximum volume of what air can hold, be it pollutants, water, whatever... once it's saturated it can't hold no more. I think back in the 60's we learned what that saturation point is, and we have dramatically improved that.

Any metro area is going to have a TON of air pollutants, its all like you said, the geography is what decides how nasty the air gets. I read this article about black soot in the ice on Greenland, turns out all the coal plants back there in the midwest and the urban NYC area deposit most of their emmisions over the ice there. The air isn't so dirty because there's nothing holding it in.

 

[argve]

I don't buy into the emissions on vehicles hinder mileage and power - yes it did at first but that was because the engineers hadn't figured out how to make an engine burn better and still give the power and mileage. I remember reading a magazine years ago - I think it was hot rod or something to that effect where they took a stock late 60's camaro and put it up against a 90's camaro (one of the bullet shaped ones) and compared it in all areas... thing was it actually got better mileage and more power along with less emissions.... yes there was a time that the engineers were going through their learning curve but that time has passed. I had a 96 K1500 that got in the mid teens and had power - now days that has improved even more. Take a look at the IDI vs the newer PSD's.... Heck Scott's 6.0 PSD EX which is just as large as the Enterprise was, gets better mileage and doesn't smoke.... You can't tell me that's not an improvement. That's the best of both worlds...

Now that said I like rolling some smoke and have done my fair share with the Nanny Goat but I can't overlook the improvements that have been made and continue to be made...

No I'm not some tree hugging save the caraboo type but I can see the need for improvement. I guess I consider myself a middle of the road type.... Yes I like some of both camps but not all of either one....

 

[The Warden]

I imagine that something similar will happen with diesels in the next 5 to 10 years. Yes, the DPF's suck; there's no two ways about it...they help with carbon emissions, but they murder fuel economy. But, I have a strong feeling that sooner or later, they'll go the way of the smog pump as the engineers figure out a better way to get rid of the carbon soot without sacrificing mileage.

One of the reasons I support diesels so strongly is that I contend that they're better for the environment overall...I think Europe's done a good job of demonstrating this. Nearly half of the cars on the road over there are oilburners and they actually did this for environmental reasons...

Tim, I think if there were no regulations, things would be exactly as they were in the 60's (as RLDSL said)

There is a point where the air reaches a saturation level and the density changes, then the pollutants will either precipitate out, or they flow over the mountains and out towards Arizona. I spoke with a scientist with the BAAQMD about this and he's the one who pointed this out, the concept is called "stratospheric saturation point" or something like that. Point is, there is a maximum volume of what air can hold, be it pollutants, water, whatever... once it's saturated it can't hold no more. I think back in the 60's we learned what that saturation point is, and we have dramatically improved that.

Good point...but, the number of cars has increased by how much since the '60's? I tend to think that, if no clean-air regulations had been imposed in that timeframe, you'd have the oversaturation that you're talking about, with the pollution either spreading out beyond the area or raining back down (i.e. acid rain IIRC). I can only imagine how the people in areas outside of L.A. would be screaming if L.A.'s pollution was invading their air they're already trying to blame L.A. for all of their problems...

Just my quick thoughts as I'm rushing to get ready for work...

 

[DragRag]

Just wanted to state for the record that, regarding the fireplaces and wood-burning stoves, as I understand it, they make an exception if the wood-burning stove or fireplace is the only way of heating your home. Also, FWIW, the whole "Spare the Air" day concept has to do with valleys and a lack of wind...get the weather conditions just right, and the air just hangs there and you end up with a smog bowl...and they're trying to limit that to the best of their ability. I'm not making a moral judgment either way, but just wanted to say that it's not completely arbitrary...

IMHO RLDSL's post is right on the money!! Things are getting to the point where they're going overboard (and I really don't like the fact that CARB has no oversight whatsoever), but I don't want to think about what the air would be like now if none of the air-quality regulations had ever been passed. IMHO people need to find a happy medium, and instead people on both sides are just digging deeper into their trenches and refusing to compromise or work together. This will only be bad for the country in the long run, IMHO...

Sorry...I'll get off my soap-box now. I try to keep my views to myself, but sometimes I can't help it...

There are also exceptions for EPA certified wood burning stoves, and fireplaces. I have one in my home, and have seen them installed in remodeled homes after fire place bans in areas like Saratoga. The building departments will let you install them with the certification that comes with them. Fireplace Extraordinaire is the one I have, love it to. And for the record, F them smoke ****'s.

 

[The Warden]

There are also exceptions for EPA certified wood burning stoves, and fireplaces. I have one in my home, and have seen them installed in remodeled homes after fire place bans in areas like Saratoga. The building departments will let you install them with the certification that comes with them. Fireplace Extraordinaire is the one I have, love it to.

Didn't know that...that's cool

 

[icanfixall]

Sooo... Taking a short walk in LAX and your throat hurt for hours.... What do you think they are burning thousands of galons per hour 24 hours a day there.... The EPA will never do an air quality test anywhere in or around that airport. I recall going there in the 60s to send family off to europe and the islands... What a stink... Our motors do pollute but... The epa isn't testing for it.... Ever read whats in bottled water... Everything they are testing for is 0%... Thats what I'm refering to... Test for whats going out the tailpipe... Not for whats not going out the pipe. If I can scan this toilet piece of citation paper I will... Its a real laugh... Actually no reason to send it back. Then they (EPA/AQMD) know I got it and then they may feel vindicated for there paycheck...

 

[NapaBavarian]

Here's what bites me, in a diesel engines smoke is mostly carbon, same as your Kingsford Briquets, not too bad, it's the junk you cant see that will kill you!

 

[burtcheca]

Nothing will be fixed. No amount of regulations and/or technology will be able to cope with the increase of pollutans and waste. The human population is exploding and urban areas are growing into what was a forest before. Earth natural resources are being depleted and soil vegetable layer (top soil) is lacking many nutrients already and gets thinner every year. The amount of chemicals in fertilizers and pesticides just add to the problem. Raising cattle and chickens for human consumption in abusive conditions are being fed "designed" food that also uses lots of land and water. We are running out of space and energy sources but the worst is we are running out of the capacity to understand the real causes of all what's happening and running out of time also.
In the mean time, knowing that they can not solve it either but with their eyes put in the control they can gain, there is a group that deceives many telling them they care for the planet and the future, when the truth is they are just setting themselves as the masters of the many fools that believe them or do nothing, soon to be turn into slaves.
Welcome to the future!
There is only one way out of this mess.
It would be an honor for this humble farmer to share with anybody interested what I found. Just ask.
I, too, step down from my soap box now.
Your brother Burt.

 

[gatorman21218]

What I dont like is how California comes up with these laws and then everywhere they are ennacted. OK so LA has smog and needs emissions regulations, that makes sense. By why do I have to follow the same laws when I live 3000 miles away? Take for example the new jerry can they sell. You know, the one with a funny looking hard plastic nozzle. They dont have vents on the top of them, so when you go to fill up your weed eater or chain saw or whatever, gasoline sprays EVERYWHERE. I can spill less gas (or none at all) with an old vented style can than a CARB complient one. Oh and the reason for the change is so no vapors evaporate when you store it. Have any of yall ever left a half filled one out in the sun? The thing swells up like a balloon. And when you open that little cap.....WOOOOOOSH you are engulfed in fumes. Do the expect you to keep that can in the freezer? Boy I could go on and on but yall have hit on most of what I think - especially the point that those with no skills are going to be at the mercy of those with skills when the proverbial **** hits the fan.

 

[argve]

drill a hole in the can... that is what I have done... or just lose the cap - that has been real common on my stuff....

 

[gatorman21218]

Oh all my new cans have a "vent hole" with a roofing nail to cap it. But those stiff nozzles make it a problem to pour fuel into a tank sometimes. with a flexable one you can bend it into the hole and then lift up the can to pour. With say a 5 gallon can its really hard to make a clean refuel for a tractor with a tank up high. Its just BS. Tilt and Prey you have got the right aim

How many of you have had a small engine (weed eater, lawn mower etc) troubles because of ethanol in gas? Ive used so much carb cleaner and wasted so much time with that stuff it aint even funny. Let it sit for a month and it will separate/ collect water and carry all the junk in the fuel tank and deposit it on the needle valves and jets in the carbeurator. Ive found a place down by the river that sells the old stuff. And aint that funny I havent any of my equipment not start this year with the Ethanol-free Gasoline.