Blue Smoke at cold idle, White smoke after descent/climb (air intrusion)

[bumblebeer]

Blue smoke in the exhaust is almost always oil burning in combustion and white smoke (not grey, white) is normally an indicator of coolant burning off in combustion. Usually, that will smell similar to pancakes or waffles but its a toss up based on the type of coolant you use. May have a possible head gasket issue or somewhat worn rings or a valve issue (stem, seat, etc would explain the blue smoke but not the white). That is unless oil is fouling up an injector causing it to fail to close up fully, allowing fuel to dribble in. Lots of variables to investigate.

Versilon C-210-A is a clear tube that will handle the temperature and pressures of your fuel system leading up to the IP. I picked up a small spool of it a while back to see air intrusion on my trucks. Another item to note is that the most common point of air intrusion are the injector return caps. Seems people have the most issues there with intrusion, likely because of just how many joints there are in the return system.

However, I have never known air intrusion to cause smoking issues. If you get air in an injector line sufficient to effect it's behavior, it likely just wont work at all and that cylinder wont fire until the air vents out of the system. Unless of course you have air intrusion AND a bad injector where the fuel is able to just dribble into the cylinder, although that would be pretty rare.

I agree with the conclusion of air intrusion likely not being the cause. These fuel systems are designed to work with a certain amount of air in the lines. You'll pickup air and see bubbles in the line just from driving and sloshing the diesel around in the tanks. I imagine it would have to be a very serious intrusion issue to cause any ill effects once the engine was running. And yeah, for sure check the return cap. Very common point for leaking, but I don't believe they can cause air intrusion. Or I guess more specifically, if they do let any air into the line while the engine is running, it should be sent to the tank, not the IP.

I've always heard the same about blue smoke, but it's never made much sense to me. Our engines are very happy to burn and even run off of 15w-40. I would think blue smoke to be the result of any incomplete combustion regardless of reason. I'd expect over fueling or poor fuel atomization / vaporization due to improper timing, a worn injector, bad rings, blown gasket, etc; or a slight reduction in oxygen from compression leaks or a bent intake pushrod, etc, to all result in blue smoke. Of course that's assuming the cylinder in question is actually firing and the problem isn't bad enough to cause a miss or lack of total fuel vaporization. Is it just said blue smoke = burning oil because that is the most likely reason? I would love to hear your thoughts!

 

[Black dawg]

I have seen blue smoke from oil leaking in the exhaust side of the turbo, as well as oil down exhaust guides. Have had some engines that burned huge amounts of oil (assuming rings) that never had any smoke or smell. Both of the conditions with oil in the exhaust, would only show up after extended idling, and then doing something to get the exhaust nice and warm....making smoke...but will clear up after burning it off until the next time it gets built up.

Fuel smoke from retarded timing can definitely be light blue at times.

 

[bumblebeer]

Should I just line the marks up, or should I advance it 1 dime’s thickness?

Thanks!!

If I recall correctly a dimes width should give you around 3-5* advance, s I don't think it would hurt to do a little more than that.

However...

A dimes thickness is about all you can move the pump without needing to loosen the hard lines coming of the back of the IP. So that depends on how much time you have to monkey with it. Those lines are really aggravating to loosen and re-tighten even with the customary bent wrench and or crow's foot.

I'll probably catch hell for this, but when I was monkeying around with my timing to try and make up for a cylinder with poor compression, I'd move the IP a dimes width then see what my timing was. If it wasn't as far as I wanted, I'd leave it alone and drive for a few days up to a week or so. This allowed some of the stress on the lines to settle out and I could come back and move the IP a bit more. But do this at your own risk. What's actually happening is the lines are getting very slightly bent to relieve the pressure you are putting on them by rotating the pump. It's much better to loosen the lines, move the pump and re-tighten, but I had a set of spare lines so I decided to risk being lazy.

 

[ISPKI]

I agree with the conclusion of air intrusion likely not being the cause. These fuel systems are designed to work with a certain amount of air in the lines. You'll pickup air and see bubbles in the line just from driving and sloshing the diesel around in the tanks. I imagine it would have to be a very serious intrusion issue to cause any ill effects once the engine was running. And yeah, for sure check the return cap. Very common point for leaking, but I don't believe they can cause air intrusion. Or I guess more specifically, if they do let any air into the line while the engine is running, it should be sent to the tank, not the IP.

I've always heard the same about blue smoke, but it's never made much sense to me. Our engines are very happy to burn and even run off of 15w-40. I would think blue smoke to be the result of any incomplete combustion regardless of reason. I'd expect over fueling or poor fuel atomization / vaporization due to improper timing, a worn injector, bad rings, blown gasket, etc; or a slight reduction in oxygen from compression leaks or a bent intake pushrod, etc, to all result in blue smoke. Of course that's assuming the cylinder in question is actually firing and the problem isn't bad enough to cause a miss or lack of total fuel vaporization. Is it just said blue smoke = burning oil because that is the most likely reason? I would love to hear your thoughts!

Ive had my fair share of engines that, for one reason or another, started burning oil, oddly enough I have seen it most frequently in toyota 4 cylinder engines (years of low quality piston rings). You are right in that engines will burn some oil all the time, its unavoidable but its usually so little that you either dont notice it, your catalytic converter burns it out or the healthy combustion of the engine burns it sufficiently as to not see it.

If you can see blue smoke coming out of your tailpipe, that is 100% motor oil burning in the combustion chamber. Its the only way that can happen as nothing else produces blue smoke. My MS3 has leaking turbo seals and it loses oil slowly over time by oil leaking into the exhaust after the turbo but it doesnt come out blue, just shows up as a small amount of light grey vapor out the tail pipe.

Transmission fluid can also burn blue and there are rare situations in certain vehicles where you can actually get transmission fluid into your engine but I dont think that can happen on these engines.

Coolant comes out in thick white clouds, unburnt diesel usually shows up as light grey when its not burning at all, its just venting unburnt fuel. Black smoke is partially combusted fuel usually when too much fuel is added and your engine doesnt have the time for combustion to complete before dumping it.

 

[Cant Write]

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I got it that far by hand. Should I do more? Nuts are loose, twisted by hand, can try harder if need be

 

[IDIBRONCO]

You've advanced the timing. Why not try it there and see what happens?

 

[Cant Write]

I have crow’s feet, but not a bent wrench. Can the lines be loosened with just a crow’s foot?

I also do not have a torch, just a butane plumbing size one.

 

[Cant Write]

Since it is showing symptoms of being retarded, I would start with about a dimes thickness to the advanced side.

A quick check I do to know if the timing to too far retarded is with the first start of the day (with cold advance disconnected) is to rev it to 2k. If timing is in the atleast the 8.5 degree range, engine will run perfectly smooth even reved up. If the timing is where I like it, engine will run slightly rough and blow some white smoke. This usually is about the 4-6 degree range. If the timing is pretty retarded, usually 3 degrees or less, engine will run very rough and quite a bit of white smoke. This is all while revving the engine to 2k on a first start of the day within the first minute of running.

I am about to cold start it. Will figure out which one is cold advance, disconnect and try this.

 

[Cant Write]

Alright, unplugged cold advance. Started and revved it up.

Smokey and ran rough, but NOT very rough and very Smokey.

Will need to drive it over Dallas to see the results. Will try climbing the pass in 2nd vs direct.

Also, cold start smoke is NO LONGER blue. Slight haze white/gray. But the camera won’t even pick it up.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Also, cold start smoke is NO LONGER blue. Slight haze white/gray. But the camera won’t even pick it up.

I really think that you're heading in the right direction.

 

[Cant Write]

Alright, I start shift tonight. One funny last story. Wife is taking her Tundra in for rear brakes and trans/diff/xfer case/ac service.

Son is mad he can’t get music to play. I pull over and it starts running rough. I immediately think it’s running out of fuel and shut it off.

Grabbed 5 gallons and all is fine.

Wife is just loving giving me crap for running out of fuel. Even though I’m purposefully keeping it low in case I have to drop the tank.

I now know where the empty mark is. Half way between E and an eighth

 

[bumblebeer]

I got it that far by hand. Should I do more? Nuts are loose, twisted by hand, can try harder if need be

Sounds like you've already got it tightened back up and running. If you decide to advance it more , you can still safely go a dimes width or so from where it was originally. That square knob thing on the body of the injection pump just above the top bolt holding the IP to the gear cover is made so you can put a 19mm or 3/4" (I can't remember which one) wrench on it to help rotate the pump. You can put a fair bit of pressure on it, just be sure not to rotate too far otherwise you risk breaking stuff.

Also, cold start smoke is NO LONGER blue. Slight haze white/gray. But the camera won’t even pick it up.

In your case, I don't think smoke color matters as much as volume. As long as there is less smoke than before. Like IDIBRONCO said, I think you are on the right track.

Wife is just loving giving me crap for running out of fuel. Even though I’m purposefully keeping it low in case I have to drop the tank.

I now know where the empty mark is. Half way between E and an eighth

Yeah, wives tend to do that. Owning and driving a 30+ year old vehicle isn't just a choice of conveyance, it's more of a lifestyle.

Also...

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I would not drive with the tank near empty. If you need to drop the tank drive till near empty once, then bite the bullet and go ahead and drop it. Otherwise, if something happens and you have to drop the tank, just plan on draining it. With a hand pump or siphon, a few 5 gallon buckets, and a funnel, you can drain, drop, and refill fairly easily.

The factory fuel senders and gauges are not the most accurate or reliable, but neither is the "shower head". I'd be willing to bet your's is broken or cracked. If the check had failed, or if the whole thing had fallen off you'd probably be empty around 1/4 tank. But the dingus end can break or develop a large crack without the rest being affected. Otherwise you should be able to drive to empty or a little below.

That showerhead pickup thing sits in the middle of the tank. If it is broken or cracked and can't pull all the way to the bottom and you're running with a light tank then when you're on a steep incline either up or down, you may actually be pulling in a significant volume of air.

I'd fill the tank to the top and go hit some hills and see how it responds.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Owning and driving a 30+ year old vehicle isn't just a choice of conveyance, it's more of a lifestyle.

With a hand pump or siphon,

or even a cheap electric pump and some rubber fuel line.

 

[Cant Write]

Update: filled the tank, it’s only 25 gallons!! For some reason I thought it was 35. Now I really want an RV tank cause I hear those are 50 gallons!!.....? @Cubey

I know the crossmembers are different and the fill location.

Descending Dallas Divide, 2000’ when I accelerated again, it smoked, but took less time to stop smoking.

Ascending Dallas divide, no difference in climbing power between D and 2nd, just difference in engine noise. So I prefer D and 40 mph.

BUT.......when I created the pass, NO smoke!!! It still bucked a few times on me, but no visible white smoke.

I’m going to advance the timing a little more now that I’ve been informed about the “boss”. Going for 1-2 dimes thickness.

Thanks all!!

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Now I really want an RV tank cause I hear those are 50 gallons!!.....? @Cubey

He has twin tanks on his RV.