Rear end decisions...

[riotwarrior]

Well lets see,

You've got a 93 I think so you have the longer pinion splined setup! GOOD

Second you have a POSI this may be why you are noticing wheels harder to turn...no friction modifier etc I am not sure

Third no marks on carrier from problems and gears look ok!

Did you check the cross shaft and gears for WEAR? Mine are like so loose it's not funny you can take the spiders and move them side to side! Ya..tha's loose

As for cluncking, when? Driving on jack stands? what, do you feel any binding? Kinda hard to diagnose from my side of screen ....

Al

 

[metalminded]

Yes its still on jack stands. before i started i had spun one of the wheels by hand and it was smooth, now that its back together i tried it and its clunking.. perhaps this is the lack of fluid on things? though i doubt that muck i drained was doing much in that department.
as for how it feels it seems like binding... i dont really have any experience with this though so i am not sure how its supposed to feel.
gears inside seemed ok... nothing overly loose .
also, this royal purple i am using is supposed to include friction modifier..... and it better for $20 a quart.

 

[riotwarrior]

Yes its still on jack stands. before i started i had spun one of the wheels by hand and it was smooth, now that its back together i tried it and its clunking.. perhaps this is the lack of fluid on things? though i doubt that muck i drained was doing much in that department.
as for how it feels it seems like binding... i dont really have any experience with this though so i am not sure how its supposed to feel.
gears inside seemed ok... nothing overly loose .
also, this royal purple i am using is supposed to include friction modifier..... and it better for $20 a quart.

Is the drive shaft NOW connected doing these tests?

are you turning a wheel and getting this bind or turning pinion? Do both wheels turn same direction? They should as you do have a posi that was clear in the pictures that where provided.

How much torque did you tighten the pinion nut down with? I'm partial to correct procedures not just gun it n hope for the best, that's me own thoughts! Seeing as the crush sleeve was already crushed, gunning it down can affect preload and change things. IMHO not the best procedure! There is a reason there are torque values and procedures and such to follow.

There will be significant overlapping clearances that stack upon one another when you get to wheel and turn it.

THere should only be a certain amount of play in pinion and ring gear aka backlash. That will stack with worn clutches and spider gears and cross shaft and splines on axles and then things seem way out of wack. Each part has a measurement to fit into or set of specs, I'm guessing those where not checked?

If you are uncertain of a procedure I'd strongly encourage you to seek a friend who may know more and have them check out your work.

JM2CW

 

[metalminded]

well.... i put better judgment aside and finished topping it off with RP. took it down the road nice and timid like at first and the truck feels MUCH better. no clunking no other weirdness...
so i guess job done.

here's the happy new home of almost 4 quarts of purple drank.

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next is replacing this rear exhaust insulator, from the looks of it i have to drop half this gas tank skid plate?

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[LCAM-01XA]

Reefing the pinion nut on with the impact at full blast is the last thing you wanna do, especially if you have a decent impact and the crush sleeve has already been crushed once. It takes a lot of force to start crushing the sleeve, but in my experience once it's began to crush it takes a whole lot less force to continue crushing it. My impact is rated at only 600lbs-ft at 90 psi, but fed 120 psi air it will crush the crush sleeve to the point where the pinion will be a bear to turn, if possible at all. Which means the pinion bearings are way overloaded.

In your situation I'd pull the axle apart. Completely. Drain oil, pull axle shafts, pull differential, pull the pinion out. You can leave the new seal you just installed in place, it does not need to come out, neither does the bearing behind it. Get that lousy POS crush sleeve off the pinion shaft, replace it with solid spacer and shims. A spacer and shims kit is only like $15 shipped from Summit, and it will come with simple and straight-forward instructions on how to use it. Figure out what combination of shims you wanna use, slide them and the spacer on the pinion, slide pinion back in axle and carefully fish it thru the front bearing and slinger, reinstall yoke, torque nut on, check pinion preload. If too tight or too loose pull pinion out again and change shims according to the table that came with the kit. You'll probably have it right within 3 tries, it's not hard at all. When it's good reinstall the diff, slide axle shafts back in and torque them, close the axle and refill it with that fancy oil you drained. Off you go on your merry way. It's a lazy afternoon's job, nothing big deal about it. And you'll have a peace of mind that it's been done right.

 

[metalminded]

I am going to take this advise, only wish I had heard from you sooner. Thanks for the reply.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Aye, my apologies for that. I had actually typed a reply the same day you posted, but I think the browser froze up before I sent it and then I completely forgot about it... Here's a link to the spacer and shim kit I used:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rat-4105
Also it appears I was wrong, it's $15 for the kit alone, shipping was $5 on top of that. Order it now and you'll probably get it on Saturday.

While you wait on it to arrive, answer me this - how hard was the pinion yoke to turn by hand when you were done? If you haven't tried it yet lift the rear up on stands, put trans in neutral, and see if you can turn the driveshaft one-handed.

 

[PackRat239]

Um, that NOT how you install solid spacer and shims. You need to set correct pinion depth with spacer and shims, which takes special tools. Then you set bearing pre-load. Leave it alone. It will be better than if you take it all apart. It will be fine.

 

[metalminded]

Um, that NOT how you install solid spacer and shims. You need to set correct pinion depth with spacer and shims, which takes special tools. Then you set bearing pre-load. Leave it alone. It will be better than if you take it all apart. It will be fine.

I could be reading this wrong, but your reply doesn't make sense to me. not trying to be a wise ass

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Um, that NOT how you install solid spacer and shims. You need to set correct pinion depth with spacer and shims, which takes special tools. Then you set bearing pre-load. Leave it alone. It will be better than if you take it all apart. It will be fine.

Why does he need to change pinion depth? It has nothing to do with method of preload, as long as the preload is the same when measured at the yoke it matters not if it was achieved via a crush sleeve or spacer and shims - pinion head will be in the same position.

And the leave it alone comment seems like a bad advice to me. How do you know it will be fine? His impact may have jacked up the preload stupid high, by all means please do enlighten me how that is considered fine? Yes he may be fine, but then there is a good chance he overloaded it too. You weren't there with him when he did the job, I wasn't there with him, no one was - so no one can tell him for a fact that he will be OK without him giving us a torque reading at the pinion shaft with the diff removed. At which point he might as well pull the pinion and install either a new crush sleeve or the spacer and shims kit...

 

[riotwarrior]

Ya I'm sorry for not catching this too LCAM, I was busy with crap didn't respond or read it.

LETS work to get this straitened out for him.

I fully agree with LCAM except on one part, I'd suggest pull front seal and buy a new one! When setting preload it's IIRC 10 INCH pounds on used bearings with NO SEAL 15 on new bearings, I can check my books for that data if need be.

LCAM as he did not pull axles and diff any effort turning the pinion would inevitably go towards turning all the other stuff and be a bear for an inexperienced hand to say if it was hard or not.

If you wanted to take it a step further since your in for the full monty, if your axle has considerable miles on it maybe you may want a posi clutch kit and rebuild that too!

LCAM is correct there is no issue with utilizing a crush sleeve eliminator as it has no BEARING (pun intended) on pinion depth! Once that's set its set!

As the OP has a long spline pinion, one thing I forgot to mention and I'm surprised LCAM didn't either, was to clean those splines SPOTLESS surgically clean! use brake clean what ever it takes, then when doing the FINAL install of yoke, place a small bead of silicone on the pinion around the tip and only a small bead 1/8" or there bout just at the tip so when you slide the yoke on if seals those splines from any oil leakage.

Others may agree or dissagree...

Often a leaking spline gets missed and people think its a pinion seal and it gets replaced, this then continues and people wonder why they paid that professional wrench to do the job wrong.

JM2CW
Al

 

[laserjock]

Not to hijack here, but could one of you guys give me the readers digest version of the crush sleeve elimination instructions? On the face it would seem that you could essentially take the crush sleeve out, mic it or measure it with a set of calipers and build up a stack of shims/spacers to take up that space. Is it that easy? I'm about to tear into my 8.8 this weekend for what I hope is just a LS clutch rebuild and I am trying to cover worst case scenarios.

Again ignore me if you think its too far out of bounds.

 

[metalminded]

all responses appreciated.
I have the shim kit on the way, just going to be ginger until they arrive.
when i assembled it all i cleaned the bajebus out of the splines and greased them. i have had to drive about 3 hrs on it the way it is.. and while it does feel better than it did, i think there is a new clunk up near the transmission i have heard very intermittently. This might have been there all along however and i just wasnt able to hear it until now. I have been driving around biting my lip thinking of gears pressed into one another so hard they are sweating.

 

[metalminded]

Not to hijack here, but could one of you guys give me the readers digest version of the crush sleeve elimination instructions? On the face it would seem that you could essentially take the crush sleeve out, mic it or measure it with a set of calipers and build up a stack of shims/spacers to take up that space. Is it that easy? I'm about to tear into my 8.8 this weekend for what I hope is just a LS clutch rebuild and I am trying to cover worst case scenarios.

Again ignore me if you think its too far out of bounds.

this is the idea i believe, though i would imagine you would want to be slightly under the width of the washer with your shims as the washer compresses slightly. this is only what i have in my head and shouldn't be taken as direction. and this would only work if the washer had been crushed properly only once, which in my situation no longer applies. I am hoping the instructions will lay it out.

 

[riotwarrior]

Not to hijack here, but could one of you guys give me the readers digest version of the crush sleeve elimination instructions? On the face it would seem that you could essentially take the crush sleeve out, mic it or measure it with a set of calipers and build up a stack of shims/spacers to take up that space. Is it that easy? I'm about to tear into my 8.8 this weekend for what I hope is just a LS clutch rebuild and I am trying to cover worst case scenarios.

Again ignore me if you think its too far out of bounds.

Essentially your on the ball...

My kit DID NOT have instructions and I'll have to do it all manually myself. I've got a fairly good grasp of this stuff so it won't be a problem.

Ideally you do as you suggest, then tighten the pinion nut down to required torque, use an old nut, have a NEW nut for final assembly BTW

Then without the pinion seal in place and no carrier just a pinion measure the torque required to move the pinion, should be like 8-10 INCH pounds with USED bearings and NO seal.

That is the ultimate goal, too loose add some shim, too tight remove some shim IIRC my head is stuck on a CLARK CHY 80 forklift rebuild so i'm not in the rear end groove at the moment!

BTW NOT hijacking at all this is a good question and one that will bear a TECH 101 in time when I get back onto my OWN stuff!

all responses appreciated.
I have the shim kit on the way, just going to be ginger until they arrive.
when i assembled it all i cleaned the bajebus out of the splines and greased them. i have had to drive about 3 hrs on it the way it is.. and while it does feel better than it did, i think there is a new clunk up near the transmission i have heard very intermittently. This might have been there all along however and i just wasnt able to hear it until now. I have been driving around biting my lip thinking of gears pressed into one another so hard they are sweating.

GOOD on you to clean it super good, however I'd recommend a thorough cleaning again both the pinion and yoke splines, and on final assembly with a NEW nut yet again and LOCTITE add a bit of silicone on the end of the yoke that slides onto the pinion or on the end of the pinion if you do the YOKE and smear it into the splines a bit as you slide the yoke ONTO the pinion you wont get ************* (yes a highly technical term) building up and pushing INTO bearings some don't like that, I myself dont mind a very slight amount to act as a seal against leaking out, however silconed splines should not leak.

Grease can and will get hot thin out and could leak. I'd suggest a good HI TEMP silicone myself BTW

This should help keep dirt out oil in.

Oh and make sure the breather on you diff passes air freely and the breather tube as well. If not then heat will cause pressure to build up in the diff and the seals usually get blown out this is a big cause of leaking seals!

Hope this helps you both out!

Al