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Project: The New CDD Shop Truck

Discussion in '6.9L IH & 7.3L IDI Diesels' started by Thewespaul, May 15, 2018.

  1. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    I felt bad, had to buy the guys new straps it made quite the mess.
     
  2. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    What makes you think I was talking about you? Ok. I was.:joker: I can only imagine the mess. Are you allowed back after that?
     
  3. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    $150 in fluids I had of course changed the night before lol
    8557A0ED-B729-42DE-A960-3A1EFEDC1A84.jpeg
     
  4. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    Naturally. Kind of like the in-tank electric fuel pump never quits until right after you fill the tank. I knew a guy who had his own shop. He finally made a rule that he would only put 5 gallons back in the tank. Whatever else was left over, he kept. He said that he was amazed at how empty the fuel tanks would be after that when he went to drop them.
     
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  5. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Sounds like he could use a sump with a drain plug;)
     
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  6. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    I should have said that these were customers' vehicles when the fuel pump would quit. Unfortunately, cancer got him in December '10. He was the shop foreman and then the shop manager when I used to work on IDIs for a living. he would have really enjoyed this forum. He did get to see my Bronco a few months before he died. He liked it a lot.
     
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  7. aggiediesel01

    aggiediesel01 Full Access Member

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    We are considering you for this engine setup. My dad has been in contact with you several times over the past couple weeks or so and came to visit you after Christmas when we spoke on the phone for a while.

    This is on the '91 4x4 with 3.55 rear in my sig. It used to be mine but got too small for 3 kids so it went to live with my dad after we did a cosmetic restoration of it. Then it blew a head gasket after the radiator failed and a IDIT rebuild has been in the works for a while now but it floundered. So, it's time to get this project back on track and finished. The truck will be used to tow a 33' airstream through nearly all areas of the country but not for months on end and probably only 2-3 times a year. Pacific NW will likely be a frequent destination. Loaded truck and trailer will likely be 14-15k total. We want the truck to be able to tow at the speed limits (including west texas) with ease and don't want to be the slowest one on the uphill side while keeping egts safe. Would be nice for it to see 17+mpg empty.

    The items that are part of the foundation and way easier to do when it's torn down need to be done and done once; the old man isn't wanting to do heavy line work anymore after this one. Foundation is a '93 IDIT engine with the ATS upgrades @ 330k miles (it's been serviced by me when it was new and later sold into our family). It's got the original pump and injectors and still gets 20mpg when the old man drives it. We'd like to mostly leave the bottom end alone if possible provided there's no warning signs when it's opened up. Hopefully the pistons and rings will be fine provided there's only a minor ridge but I feel like it's cheap insurance to roll in new rod, main, and thrust bearings and check the end play on the oil pump. Playing with turbos, intercoolers and pumps are weekend activities but swapping a cam is not something we want to do once the bottom end is sealed up so we've got to finalize that decision soon so we still have time to receive it before it's holding things up. The heads will need a good work over with all the critical tolerances double checked but I don't think porting or polishing anything will be necessary for what we're after.

    We want to feed the engine as much air as possible to try to keep smoke to a minimum so that's what got me interested in learning about the cams. It seems that the Justins had pretty good luck with their designs and most of the people I've contacted who have one of the 3 cams say they'd do it again. We haven't ruled out the Typ4 cam but what I've read indicates that the torque curve is moved lower in the power band than the R&D and I haven't decided if that's better or not. I'd like the truck to get up to peak torque in the 1500 range and have enough air by 1700 to keep the exhaust clean. It normally runs 70 about 21-2200 so it needs to be up in the hp band around there. The truck has slightly oversized tires on it partly to bring the RPMs down at cruise but that could change based on where the best power is made. I think this is achievable in the 250 to the wheels range and if I remember correctly this is the upper end of your 90cc pump so that and one of your drop in turbos is on the list. Is this reasonable?

    The problem I have is there just doesn't seem to be much empirical data on how the cam actually affects things. Can't blame anyone for that, it's major work and usually part of an overhaul of sorts so it's hard to attribute what contributed what even for the guys that went to the dyno before and after. That being said the guys that have checked do say that drive pressures are down across the board with any of the cams and turbos seem to spool up faster which is the direction I want to go. The general consensus is that the typ4 cam moves the torque the lowest in the band then the R&D stage 1 and then the J2. Pretty sure we aren't after what the J2 can offer but the other two are interesting and could be very useful in achieving our goals if they work as advertised.
     
  8. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    Gotcha, I didn’t immediately connect the user name but that and your profile pic makes sense now. I talked to Mike earlier this week and looks like he’s going to drop off the first truck and a couple engines in February for the swap and building that good engine, looking forward to it.

    I dug up a clip I recorded doing some tuning on the shop truck where I was working on smoke control, even with the 130 pump and 160cc peak, the smoke really isn’t that bad despite the junk stock turbo. This clip I stab the throttle at a couple mph in 2nd, probably 1100 rpms and it cleans up really well around 2100 and remains pretty clean up till top of fourth.



    In diesel performance, even 160cc really isn’t that much fuel, and one of my 90cc pumps is pretty comparable to an obs psd on a race tune with stock 90cc injectors. The IDI will actually make more bottom end because of the compression and generally smaller turbo but my 90cc pumps typically will make over 100cc at peak, since the pump rating is for fuel flow at hp peak, but that will give you a sort of idea for performance with a 90cc pump.

    Project rewbrooks had a pretty similar setup as your truck, 90cc, stage one injectors and a 60/62mm turbo on an idit. It was pretty much smokeless by the time I was done tuning it, drove like stock but with a lot more power.

    Since you are going with bottom end power I think the torque cam would be your best bet, the stage one really delays the turbo spooling but brings the power in hard past 2k, at least in the last truck I tuned that had the stage one cam, even with my 110 pump it had trouble getting a stock sidewinder to make more than 5 psi till 2k, then it spiked and the engine really woke up.

    I think it was easily missed since I released quite a few turbo upgrades at once, but I actually offer ball bearing conversions on all my drop in turbos now, setting yalls engine up with a ball bearing GTX3582 I wager I could make even a 110 pump smokeless with some good tuning.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  9. IDIBRONCO

    IDIBRONCO IDIBRONCO

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    Wes, I believe that we talked about this, but I'll put it out for others to see. I have to agree with the torque cam. Russ says that N/A guys really like his cam. A good turbo will overshadow any performance gains made from a cam after it's making boost. I believe in making more power everywhere in the RPM range. Russ's cam will give you more power than stock before your turbo is making boost. 50 PSI won't do you much good in the real world if you can't get a heavy load moving in order to be making that boost. Plus it will help you pull away from a stop sooner, even empty.
     
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  10. Goose_ss4

    Goose_ss4 Full Access Member

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    Just to add to the back pressure. Most psd make close to over 100psi back pressure and that's on powder metal rods. They get away with it with tuning and running a correct size turbo. Like wes said we are limited chockeing all of motors with that small factory turbos.

    Also 7.3 have huge rotating mass. Even 7.3 psd guys dont like to spin them pass 3 to often without extensive engine work and machining. I know when I got my engine balanced the motor needed alot of heavy metal added to get right.
     
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  11. 79jasper

    79jasper Chickenhawk

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    You must not be talking about the 7.3, I don't know any running anywhere near that high drive pressure. For the 7.3 on a factory turbo, typically it's about 1:2 boost/DP.
    Also for the pmr, those were only 00-03. And most don't use them in power builds.

    Same here, I don't know any 7.3 powerstroke owner that tries to keep it under 3k.
    (I've been around the powerstroke forums for a very long time.)
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  12. Goose_ss4

    Goose_ss4 Full Access Member

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    The 6.0 has higher back pressure psi with smaller rods and pmr
     
  13. 79jasper

    79jasper Chickenhawk

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    That's still nearly double the ebp a 6.0 should see, even with heavy tuning. Is it possible they are reading in kpa?
    Stock 6.0 pmr rods have proven strong to 800hp. (Way stronger than the pmr's in a 7.3)
    I'm curious where you're seeing this.

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  14. Goose_ss4

    Goose_ss4 Full Access Member

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    Wes idk how any takes videos and drives but here is a shot of mine it may be kpa. So you may be right. Also forgot this thing has custom tuning so that be effecting the reading

    20200117_180933.jpg
     
  15. Thewespaul

    Thewespaul Supporting Vendor Supporting Member

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    It’s pretty tricky, for getting pictures of gauges I’ll take a short video and take a screenshot of a clear frame, for video taping I use a suction mount for my phone on the window
     

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