alienturtle
Human
haha jedi squirrels..thats funny 
my dyno numbers are in.
- Thread starter NMB2
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snaponprofile
Full Access Member
haha jedi squirrels..thats funny
Wow, I can't believe you just saw those.
93turbo_animal
Registered User
93turbo animal, when you put your idi on the dyno what did you hit powerwise? Also with the fact that the boost and egts weren't as high as normal proves the dynos don't load our trucks enough to get an accurate reading most of the time. So, some truck might be making a lil bit more power than they think they are imo.
I didn't have an IDI at the time I was one of the PSD's and this is why I know my boost and egts were so low cause my programmer can track the highest readings on each gauge so theres no doubt it wasn't working as hard as it can and I completely agree with you that the power numbers might be a little low
your truck does count dude, it is impressive and we all said so. however, we dont think it shows a dps pump being any more of a performer than a moose pump. and its not to say you can build/tune better than anyone else here.. you've just put more time and money into your performance than anyone else here. not to discredit your work, but there have been dozens of threads of people with the same basic engine plans, you're just the first to follow through.
just so you know, you come off as really cocky. you aren't above anyone else in this forum. members like icanfixall and agnem have forgotten more about these trucks than you will ever know about them. we're impressed with your build but you need to calm down.
just so you know, you come off as really cocky. you aren't above anyone else in this forum. members like icanfixall and agnem have forgotten more about these trucks than you will ever know about them. we're impressed with your build but you need to calm down.
bike-maker
Full Access Member
Holy Crap, I was going to stay out of it but............The way I see it, the whole DPS vs. Moose debate isn't worth debating over; Heath has solid data of the difference in power between the 2, but NMB2 was able to make significantly more torque than that (Kudos to you for someone finally putting their money where their mouth is and really building an IDI to make more power than previously thought possible). I think the key is the bigger up pipes, turbo, and most importantly: whatever kind of experimental head gaskets he has holding the thing together.
In the end, a bunch of good things will come from this. Is it really worth getting upset over?
In the end, a bunch of good things will come from this. Is it really worth getting upset over?
the way i see it is that the two products can not be compared this way. sure your engine made more hp and torque, but you're comparing your truck to trucks that have different modifications, and on two different kinds of dyno's. there is no way that they can be compared this way. now if someone else had the same mods as your truck with a moose pump and misters then that would be a fair comparison. im not gonna say one pump is better than the other, but you have NO proof that your dps pump and injectors are any better than or have out perfored the moose pump and injectors.
besides the dyno slip....nope.your right.true comment.
in their stock form..true.
however.......new blood with more modern view's can be just as beneficial.
don't be quick to give the new guy a hard time.......when it comes to the indirectly injected diesel; it's clear we need help in the hp department to gain newer interested ones.those with loads of $!!!!!.we need those type to think IDI or we'll continue to become a dying breed,with no aftermarket advancement.
we could stay on the same old trusty path sure.we know where that's leading don't we?it's not in the direction of up,lets face it.
perhaps he'd calm down if a more open minded approach was taken.
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NMB2
Dunce
Really?,.,..THIS is the reason,...?
Come on Suck it up and take it like a man,..95% of the post in this thread has been positive towards your results, One guy shows up and gives you an argument and you get all pissy about it,..?
Heath brings up some good points, some of wich, many here have bee wondering about, but didnt have the balls to post em,,..now someone does and all you want to do is take your ball and go home,.
Grow up,... its going to be ok...
The first thing you are mistaken about is that you think I am upset, I am annoyed at the ignorance spewing out of this thread/forum.
Ya, because my line of work doesn't require handling peer and superior review
WOH! Take a breath and read what I posted. I'm not sure why you think this is a contest of some sort. My post was simply pointing out that a graph of power vs. time is going to be different than power vs. RPM. That's why there is a different "curve" between your graph and others posted (not just mine). Tuning has nothing to do with what Ken does the IP and injectors. Why would my (or Joe's) curve be so different with the same DPS fuel than yours. The data collected and graphed is different, that's why. Thus comparing the two is fruitless as you have no idea what your power is doing during changes in RPM. And, until you test pump to pump and injector to injector and on the same truck.... you CANNOT say, one is better than the other.... APPLES AND ORANGES!
You are so lost in your argument of the dyno readings that I'm surprised you were able to find your way to this thread and post on the subject. I am going to put this as simple as possible, because you obviously don't get it. The dyno sheet shows the elapsed time of the pull which was from 40mph to 72mph. It just so happens that I am intelligent enough to of watched, and made a mental note as to what my starting RPM was, and my ending RPM, hence I know what RPM my motor was throughout the entire curve, it does not "change the curve". Your theory you have fabricated as to why the powercurves are different, is once again, wrong. You should probably read this - http://www.quickstreettrucks.com/showthread.php?1514-Mustang-Dyno-vs-Dyno-Jet
I never intended to build "the most powerful IDI" on OB. I never cared if it was dynoing more that anyone else. I dyno'ed to see what difference there was between the DPS stuff I had vs. the Moose stuff I have now. Tuning? Really? I just put on a Banks turbo anyone can buy, and tried different IP's (timed via a meter) and Injectors.
My point exactly, you did no tuning, which is probably why you made such little power.
You're sick of "DSP vs Moose"????? Really? Then why make such a statement that "DPS cleary outperformed Moose"????? You're inviting that very argument! In fact a good majority of YOUR posts are arguing that point.
You know what, why pretend, I am not tired of the debate, I actually love it.
THIS IS NOT A CONTEST!
To me it is, I enjoy doing things people say cannot be done. Big part of the reason I joined the army, I like a challenge, and I hate to lose.
RELAX!
believe it or not, I am perfectly relaxed, just annoyed.
Heath
You're right, I am an instigator.
your truck does count dude, it is impressive and we all said so. however, we dont think it shows a dps pump being any more of a performer than a moose pump. and its not to say you can build/tune better than anyone else here.. you've just put more time and money into your performance than anyone else here. not to discredit your work, but there have been dozens of threads of people with the same basic engine plans, you're just the first to follow through.
I would be willing to bet that 90% of you have more money into your motors than I have into mine. I think I tallyed up right around $1500 on my current motor
just so you know, you come off as really cocky.
I can see that, but its more of a confidence thing, sorry that it has been mistaken
you aren't above anyone else in this forum.
On the level of being a human being... you're right, I'm not. As a mechanic and builder... I disagree
members like icanfixall and agnem have forgotten more about these trucks than you will ever know about them.
Good luck with that, just a blind statement as you have no clue my background with these trucks... I'll give you a hint, you're way out in left field.
we're impressed with your build but you need to calm down.
besides the dyno slip....nope.your right.true comment.
in their stock form..true.
however.......new blood with more modern view's can be just as beneficial.
don't be quick to give the new guy a hard time.......when it comes to the indirectly injected diesel; it's clear we need help in the hp department to gain newer interested ones.those with loads of $!!!!!.we need those type to think IDI or we'll continue to become a dying breed,with no aftermarket advancement.
we could stay on the same old trusty path sure.we know where that's leading don't we?it's not in the direction of up,lets face it.
perhaps he'd calm down if a more open minded approach was taken.
My attitude is fueled completely by the ignorance of a small percentage of people on this board. For some reason people think that I have all sorts of money into my rig, and I have super secret parts and even have the nerve to call me out with fabricated theories and lies.
You want the truth? There are more than a few members here that know what I'm about to tell you, which is part of the reason they are so convinced on the dps vs moose debate.
I put down those numbers on a stock 093 ATS turbo with my custom exhaust and intake. Do I have a T04Z turbo? Yes I do, and I have test fitted it.... am I currently running it? No I am not, dont you think I would show you guys pictures of something like that?
So now that we know that I made 321hp 558tq on a 1986 6.9 with custom gaskets, studs, stock manifolds, 2.5" x-over and up pipe, 3" exhaust housing and DP on a stock 093 turbo, 4" intake tube and 6637 filter, DPS pump and injectors. Total investment of right around $1500......
The "main differences" of my motor vs lets say heaths, is my 2.5" x-over and up pipe which are all wrapped in quality exhaust wrap, and my fuel system.
I guess we're closer to apples to apples now that I couldn't handle it anymore and come clean huh?
flareside_thun
Reviving The General Tao
I agree, I'd be more impressed by the 093 putting out those numbers.....
I'll continue to take a neutral position on this pump debate, because I like Ken, and respect his product. In my mind, as I had already pointed out, the word "superior" means different things to different people. Not only that, but if your horsepower numbers are solely the result of a different IP and injectors, then all someone else has to do is get a DPS pump and injectors and run them, and they will get the same results right? But that has not been the case. Other people, including me, were running them and did NOT get the same results. So the facts as we see them is, either your dyno is not comparable, or your parts are not. The whole "DPS is superior to Moose" verbage smacks of an advertisement, and it is that tone that people are putting you down for, AND making us suspicious of what the true motive behind this whole thread is about. Being humble when your doing well is a character trait people appreciate. Being boastfull and having an "I am better than thou" swagger is what is detracting from the education we are hoping to get. And now we add to the mix misdirection and subterfuge, and it only casts a gray light on everything you've said to date. 
The worst thing you can do at this point is not be 100% clear and truthfull on all your mods, because someone will come along and do the exact same thing, and if they don't get the exact same result, your efforts will be wasted. No one will care if your truck has mystery horsepower that can't be duplicated. I'd suggest you list everything out in a clear and consice manner down to your timing settings and invite others to follow in your exact steps.
The worst thing you can do at this point is not be 100% clear and truthfull on all your mods, because someone will come along and do the exact same thing, and if they don't get the exact same result, your efforts will be wasted. No one will care if your truck has mystery horsepower that can't be duplicated. I'd suggest you list everything out in a clear and consice manner down to your timing settings and invite others to follow in your exact steps.Simmonscoating
Full Access Member
I THINK SOMEONE ***'ED IN MY CHEERIOS..... I got the answer lets call amtrack get some loco engines maybe than will have the power were looking for.
liddledoggie
Full Access Member
all this talk about power is making me hungry. think i will order a new pump and injectors for my other truck. joe
besides the dyno slip....nope.your right.true comment.
if you will look at the differences in mods to the trucks he is comparing them too then no he has no proof. he needs a moose pump and injectors before he can say the dps products out performed them.
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