my dyno numbers are in.

[rhkcommander]

I'm glad to see an idi pumping numbers out like this, I could give two flying f-bombs about pump-brand loyalty itself. I prefer quality, performance, value, etc. Over blind worship. And thats a general statement not targetting anybody. I don't own either a moose or dps pump

The only thing I'm curious about now is the 'custom' headgaskets... Fel-pro, victor, hypermax most likely...? Custom from cometic we found out would cost about double your total cost

Congrats on a killer truck

 

[War Wagon]

I'm interested only in what I might learn from NMB2's build and impressive results. I don't care to be involved in any debate. I use this forum as a learning tool. I have not yet made any custom mods to my engine or installed any aftermarket parts yet (still collecting the pieces) so I have no basis to offer an opinion of one product vs the next. I think it is very cool that you have made your own custom upgraded parts where the aftermarket does not affer a solution. Custom fabrication is a lot of time, work, trial, and error. I'm gald to see someone trying something new and getting good results. Most of all I look forward to what your future build results are and I hope you share it here so myself and others can see what makes it happen. Good luck with you new engine build. I look forward to seeing it.

 

[ocnorb]

I hate to say it, but it appears that NMB2 is taking the easy way out and bailing on us now because he only got 99% positive support from this board.

We have asked alot of questions about his set up in this thread and others- each time he told us about the turbo mods that he lists in his signature (which I will quote for posterity) "1986 F350 Reg cab - 12ft flatbed. Gooseneck over axle. 6.9 - Felpro gaskets, ARP head studs overtorqued, ATS 093 turbo kit, 3" exhaust housing, downpipe, 2.5" up-pipe, 4" straight pipe into 5" tip, DPS stage 1 sticks, DPS turbo cal. pump. ZF S547 trans, stage 2 SMF clutchkit, Carter fuel pump, DieselRX GP's, VDO gauges, Speedhut GPS speedo. T04z comp side. 4" intake tube with Napa 6637 filter.
22psi wastegated.

Mustang Dyno'd
321rwhp
558rwtq

Then he throws this curveball:
"You want the truth? There are more than a few members here that know what I'm about to tell you, which is part of the reason they are so convinced on the dps vs moose debate.


I put down those numbers on a stock 093 ATS turbo with my custom exhaust and intake. Do I have a T04Z turbo? Yes I do, and I have test fitted it.... am I currently running it? No I am not, dont you think I would show you guys pictures of something like that?"

So what was all the BS about the TO4Z being so much more efficient that it did not superheat the air or need an intercooler??

I don't care if you make 500 HP- you're actions here show me that you are not the kind of man I would do any business with. Life is too short to deal with dishonest bullshitters. Now I gotta wonder if your dyno is even real. Quite the business strategy you have going. Good luck with that.

 

[93_444idi]

I agree. And the dyno sheet doesn't say what vehicle did that pull. For all we know it put down 200hp and this is just some dps advertisement, seeing as how right from the get-go he mentioned it showing dps being superior over moose pumps.. We can only assume the video is of the truck making that pull because he says so, the guy who has just changed the story on what his mods even are.

This doesn't deter me from wanting to do work on my motor, but I won't use this information as a basis for what i do. I'd be disappointed if I had the same setup and get 100 less hp. This work plus my typ4 cam, a 60-1 compressor wheel, and an intercooler is what i'm going to do this summer, I'll post the dyno sheet and a video of my truck pulling with the monitor in view. If I even get the results shown here I'll be happy.

 

[redneckaggie]

I agree. And the dyno sheet doesn't say what vehicle did that pull. For all we know it put down 200hp and this is just some dps advertisement, seeing as how right from the get-go he mentioned it showing dps being superior over moose pumps.. We can only assume the video is of the truck making that pull because he says so, the guy who has just changed the story on what his mods even are.

exactly my whole problem with this thread he came on here and insisted on dps parts when everyone told him not to, then he hasnt stopped bragging about them since. kinda seems like he is trying to prove that dps is all of a sudden top of the line performance parts, yet if he has no stock in the company and is just trying to prove that he can build the best idi why even care if dps is so much better than moose and why try so hard to prove it, you already have the highest dynoed idi so why? Not saying it didnt happen, just saying your attitude and "mysteriousness" is the only things I see negative comments about.

 

[Simmonscoating]

that would take a shady ass person to fake a dyno pull for sales. I dont think that is the case. aleast i hope not. The best thing is probley to just kill this thread chill out a bit. let the man finish what he started. Time tells the truth. I will say just like racing cars if your the only one doing it no one to challenge you sure gets boring. challenge what makes me wake up in the morning.

 

[Darrin Tosh]

I have been thinking about what I want to say and will post up more tomorrow,.

But for now,.. One thing that has been puzzling me is obviously the High HP and Torque numbers. And as it comes out, without not much more mods than what has been done before.

His Numbers,. 321rwhp 558rwtq

My IDI no LPG HP 183.15 Torque 325.45
My IDI with LPG HP 205.51 Torque 361.55

Heath Sutton- DPS inj 185.1 404.0
Heath Sutton MM's 178.7 387.9
Joe Perry 172.5 313.6

So that is 136 More horsepower (non lpg) and 154 More torque than the highest numbers that we have seen.

The only real difference is the 2.5" up pipes. Most guys here, even myself had 3" down pipe. Heath and Joe both had DPS Pumps, and injectors. Joe does run a Banks Turbo, Not an ATS, and is an auto dually.

It just makes it harder to believe that what he has done actually makes 136 more HP and 154 more torque. Those are huge numbers! and yes I know, He has dyno sheets to prove it,......

 

[Alex S]

yea it sure does not add up. I call BS too

 

[towcat]

let's keep it civil guys. the thread has come close to a padlock a couple of times, but you guys managed to pull back from the brink.
alex s........nice visual but can you pull it?

 

[zrexryder]

I've always considered dyno tests (as well as any other forms of testing) one of the more interesting parts. As a "do it myself" sort of guy as well as someone who actually runs tests, I'm always interested in the effects of design change. However, as the years have gone by, I find myself less and less impressed by the dyno tests provided. Now, I often find myself more disappointed, disillusioned, and even disgusted with what is being said. Instead of reading a well thought out design discussion that is accompanied by well executed backup tests, I often feel like I'm reading information provided more to motivate somebody to spend money, incomplete discussions that left out information that really needed to be known or created more questions in my mind than gave me answers, discussions that, to me, were "tilted" or biased rather than neutral in position and sometimes, in my mind, even determined or affected the tests' outcome, comments that obscured truths, procedures that protected a product that had one or more design flaws, opinions that could be as misleading to some as they might be helpful to others, etc. The following discussion is not based on any one immediate situation but on hundreds that I've been witnessing for years. This following discussion is also going to disturb many who read it so you are being warned, up front, about that possibility.



Problems with dyno testing.

There are no industry standards on dyno testing procedures to assure consistency of results that allow accurate comparison. While the data from sensor readings taken during a dyno test are usually CORRECTED to a specific temperature and barometric pressure to make comparisons easier, the manner in which the test(s) is/are run can vary considerable from one dyno cell to another, from one dyno operator to another, even reasons why test(s) were run in the first place, etc. - can create enough difference in outcome that just comparing numbers from different tests might end up being very misleading.

For example, while the best way of running a dyno test might be with open collectors (assuming the engine is going to be used that way), the reality many shops have to face is that they are in or near residential areas so dyno testing has to be conducted with some sort of exhaust system. Now one must be concerned not only about how the basic exhaust systems differ from shop to shop (what mufflers are used as well as how many), how different in size the flexible tubing BETWEEN the pipes and the rest of dyno cell's exhaust system might be, (These differences might not seem important to many but I remember arguments between some fellows in this area about "so and so's" dyno reading 25 HP higher than some others' dynos and that, to some, meant he was using a different CORRECTION (altitude and barometric pressure) factor to make his engines look like they were making more horsepower and torque. When I pointed out to them that I thought "so and so's" exhaust system may be better thought out than others, these fellows said that they had never thought of that possibility. So, in effect, they were accusing him of cheating when that may not have been the case at all.)

 

[wmoguy]

I must've missed something. Somewhere in the later part of the thread he's now stating he did these numbers on a stock turbo?

 

[ocnorb]

YEP.

I must've missed something. Somewhere in the later part of the thread he's now stating he did these numbers on a stock turbo?

Yep.

The first thing you are mistaken about is that you think I am upset, I am annoyed at the ignorance spewing out of this thread/forum.



Ya, because my line of work doesn't require handling peer and superior review





You're right, I am an instigator.







My attitude is fueled completely by the ignorance of a small percentage of people on this board. For some reason people think that I have all sorts of money into my rig, and I have super secret parts and even have the nerve to call me out with fabricated theories and lies.

You want the truth? There are more than a few members here that know what I'm about to tell you, which is part of the reason they are so convinced on the dps vs moose debate.


I put down those numbers on a stock 093 ATS turbo with my custom exhaust and intake. Do I have a T04Z turbo? Yes I do, and I have test fitted it.... am I currently running it? No I am not, dont you think I would show you guys pictures of something like that?

So now that we know that I made 321hp 558tq on a 1986 6.9 with custom gaskets, studs, stock manifolds, 2.5" x-over and up pipe, 3" exhaust housing and DP on a stock 093 turbo, 4" intake tube and 6637 filter, DPS pump and injectors. Total investment of right around $1500......

The "main differences" of my motor vs lets say heaths, is my 2.5" x-over and up pipe which are all wrapped in quality exhaust wrap, and my fuel system.

I guess we're closer to apples to apples now that I couldn't handle it anymore and come clean huh?

 

[wmoguy]

So we got a product hyper and a liar...... Lovely

We can also call bs on his egts being under control then. No way a stock turbo with no Intercooler can keep that in check.

Too bad. I was starting to listen to this guys shenanigans about how great the dps stuff is. Blah blah blah. The dps stuff might be good but after this guys lies and questionable motives I won't be putting my money in that companies hands. I'd liken NMB to a one hit wonder who's had his 5 minutes of fame. Now the truth comes out and he's back to peddling his crap elsewhere.

Does this board have an ignore button so you don't have to read posts from a specific individual.

 

[rjjp]

I may be wrong, but personally I call B.S. on the whole thing, check out his U-Tube videos and the get up and go that the truck lacks.
I hope I'm wrong just because an IDI putting out that kind of power would be damn cool.

 

[DeepRoots]

I watched those videos today and have to agree with the last comment.
My truck is as fast and apparently has 200+ hp less. His truck is noisier, in a good way tho.

I'm not going to blame the man, I think he believes what that dyno is telling him. Sure would be interesting to take that truck to another dyno and find out what the real deal is.

whatever, back to work, these cat's are popping real bad here on decelleration, gotta figure if it's an intake valve or the turbo.
Drew