Insulating your "junk"...

DaytonaBill

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In this thread, we were talking about R290 and R600A for our Air Conditioning systems on our trucks and the subject of insulating the 'Heater/Evaporator Box' (referred to here, as "junk") came up.

A few of the members have insulated their junk with 'Frost King' rolls that are R-3 rated. So I thought that this method of insulating the junk from the hot underhood temps would help bring the A/C temps down more, as these members have done.

And so I installed a single layer of the 'Frost King" (click this linky to see the insulation)... It took about a hour.

I decided to document how well it worked by running the vent (air from the cowl) on my way to work yesterday.

It was 6 in the morning and about 75 outside. I had a 35 mile trip to work and I have a inside outside thermometer in my dash. The remote probe for reading outside temp is shoved a few feet down the driver's side center vent. So for my application, 'inside' is the temp in the cab and 'outside' is the temp a few feet down the ductwork.

When I started the engine, inside was 75 and outside was (ductwork) 79.

Fifteen miles and fifteen minutes later, it hit 100 and leveled off to 103 for the rest of the trip. I stopped at a store and when I left, I turned on the A/C and by the time I got to the job, it was down to 48 within five miles of travel.

after work today, I'm going to install a second layer and report back on the results Monday, after work. I will take the same route and replicate the same driving conditions as yesterday.

Of course, I would appreciate any discussions of using alternative means of insulating your junk, so fire away! ;Sweet
 

junk

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Interested to see how this works. I coated my heater/evap box in lizard skin but am thinking about additional insulation.
 

The Warden

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In this thread, we were talking about R290 and R600A for our Air Conditioning systems on our trucks and the subject of insulating the 'Heater/Evaporator Box' (referred to here, as "junk") came up.

A few of the members have insulated their junk with 'Frost King' rolls that are R-3 rated. So I thought that this method of insulating the junk from the hot underhood temps would help bring the A/C temps down more, as these members have done.

And so I installed a single layer of the 'Frost King" (click this linky to see the insulation)... It took about a hour.

I decided to document how well it worked by running the vent (air from the cowl) on my way to work yesterday.

It was 6 in the morning and about 75 outside. I had a 35 mile trip to work and I have a inside outside thermometer in my dash. The remote probe for reading outside temp is shoved a few feet down the driver's side center vent. So for my application, 'inside' is the temp in the cab and 'outside' is the temp a few feet down the ductwork.

When I started the engine, inside was 75 and outside was (ductwork) 79.

Fifteen miles and fifteen minutes later, it hit 100 and leveled off to 103 for the rest of the trip. I stopped at a store and when I left, I turned on the A/C and by the time I got to the job, it was down to 48 within five miles of travel.

after work today, I'm going to install a second layer and report back on the results Monday, after work. I will take the same route and replicate the same driving conditions as yesterday.

Of course, I would appreciate any discussions of using alternative means of insulating your junk, so fire away! ;Sweet
Forgive my confusion, but any chance I could ask you to clarify a few things?

First, you said that the outside temp probe is "shoved a few feet down the driver's side center vent". I just want to make sure...this is measuring the air temperature inside the ducting between the evaporator and the vent, as opposed to measuring the temperature of the air coming in from the cowl pre-evaporator?

Second, if the "outside" probe is measuring temperature inside the ducting after the evaporator i.e. as cold as the air's going to get, is that 48 degree number the temp inside the ducting, or in the cab in general?

Third, how does this compare to what temperatures were before you added the first layer of insulation?

As a penguin who wants the a/c to turn a crew cab into an ice box, I'm very curious to see the results...thank you for documenting this! ;Sweet
 

typ4

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Quote/As a penguin who wants the a/c to turn a crew cab into an ice box, I'm very curious to see the results...thank you for documenting this!/quote


That explains the way you dress. lol ... Had to.
 

snicklas

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I usually insulate my "junk" with either insulated coveralls, flannel lined jeans or "long johns"....... LOL sorry, the Northerners will get this.......

One thing, do you have some kind of shut-off for the water to the heater core? Either a ball valve in the supply side, or one of the Ranger/Explorer divert valves.... Hot water cycles through the heater core all the time. What I've found in all me vehicles, if I have the vent on, and start driving and keep moving from the time the engine/heater core is cold, the vent will stay cool. As soon as I stop at like the gas station or stop for a few minutes, the vent will blow warm air from then on out......... so I think that may be part of your temp rise.....
 

Clb

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I usually insulate my "junk" with either insulated coveralls, flannel lined jeans or "long johns"....... LOL sorry, the Northerners will get this...

Lol carhart arctic bibb's
 

BR3

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Bill, something that didn't hit me until now when I read you op, I wonder if it doesnt have anything to do with the evap box at all as far as the temperature goes.
Consider this- when snicklas said his temps only rise after a stop, what changed...fresh air over the hood for a short period of time. I wonder if the metal of the hood/cowl area itself is tactually causing the rise. I know at least on all the idis I have ever owned, the hood would almost burn you even at 70mph when you think air temps outside and flowing would cool it off.
Just a thought, not really a practical way of testing it shy of hosing off the hood wile sitting in your driveway.... I'll love to see the results of the test

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DaytonaBill

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Sorry about the delay, but here are the latest results from installing a second layer on my 'junk'.

6:00 AM - ambient temp is 77 and the duct temp is 80.

As before, fifteen miles and fifteen minutes later... It reaches 100 and tops out between 106 and 104...

I am starting to suspect BR3 is right, I put my hand on the cowl (just below the wiper stems) at about 6:35 when I stopped at my store and it was very warm.

I guess the vent testing protocol was not the best method for testing Heater/AC box insulating...

I will say this, during my commute home, I am seeing lower temps at the vents. Presumably due to the two layers of R3 foam insulation.

I took some pictures of the process of covering the "junk" with the insulation...

But before I post the pictures, I want to answer The Warden's questions...

My thermometer has two inputs, one inside the actual body of thermometer and the other in the form of a remote wired probe with about ten feet of wire. It was this remote probe (for outside temp) that I shoved into the ductwork inside of the dash. This probe is where the thermometer gets it's data for it's 'outside' reading and since it's now inside the ductwork, it really is measuring the temp of the air post-evaporator.

While I have the 'outside' probe measuring the inside ductwork temps, I have the actual thermometer measuring the cab temp via the 'inside' display window.

What I've actually done is, I guess, is reverse the function of the thermometer... Inside is the cab and outside is the ductwork. Nothing in the cowl at all.

Although I could run the remote probe into the cowl, I already know that the outside air does get hot because the sheetmetal of the hood and cowl gets hot.

As for A/C temps pre insulation, I don't have those numbers, but I can verify that insulating the junk is helping bring the temps down.

Okay, it's A/C ***** time!!!

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I shoved the wires and hosed over to the accumulator and removed the vacuum actuator that works the blend door. This gives me more clearance for my big fat hands...

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Lotza room!

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I insulated the ductwork in the part of the box where the outside air flows past the blend door. The insulation might be super sticky, but I wasn't happy with the way it would pull away from another piece of insulation. I used Aluminized duct tape and even then it didn't want to stick very well. My answer was to tape everything so that all you could see was the tape itself!

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This is what it looks like with the vacuum motor back in place. Looks good, eh?

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Here's my heater bypass... I installed this way back in the summer of 2009. This is about the best thing you can do in terms of reducing A/C vent temps. Just this alone was good for ten degrees!
 

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DaytonaBill

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I was thinking about the mystery of why Ford decided to use the cowl area to draw "cool" outside air into the cab...

My hood itself was insulated, but it became a victim of broken fan belts and got shredded.

So, I took it off thinking that it was being used just for sound dampening purposes. Now I think it also kept the cowl area cooler...

Any thoughts on that?

Any idea on where I could find replacement? Or maybe I could use duct board? With stick pins?
 

The Warden

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First, thank you for addressing my questions ;Sweet

I was thinking about the mystery of why Ford decided to use the cowl area to draw "cool" outside air into the cab...

My hood itself was insulated, but it became a victim of broken fan belts and got shredded.

So, I took it off thinking that it was being used just for sound dampening purposes. Now I think it also kept the cowl area cooler...

Any thoughts on that?

Any idea on where I could find replacement? Or maybe I could use duct board? With stick pins?
I'm pretty sure you can't find an OEM molded hood pad anymore...I think your best bet would be to use some of the same insulating material to cover the inside of the hood.

With that having been said, I'm not sure how much good that will do with the cowl...the hood pad is more for noise insulation and to not cook the paint on the hood from the inside out.

There should be a seal on the top of the firewall that's supposed to seal up the rear hood seam. That seal serves two purposes...first, it's supposed to keep rainwater from getting into the intake (without the seal, it's actually possible on a n/a engine for rainwater to get through that seam and collect on top of the air filter can, and if the rubber seal on the wingnut is not in good shape, rainwater can get into the intake and potentially hydrolock the engine :shocked: ). Second, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to keep hot air from escaping the engine compartment through that seam and letting that hot engine compartment air be sucked into the cowl. So, if that seal's missing and especially if the rear of the hood is sticking up any, that could be a big part of why you're getting hot air in the cowl, and therefore into the vent.

For that matter, how's your upper firewall insulation?
 

tbrumm

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First, thank you for addressing my questions ;Sweet


I'm pretty sure you can't find an OEM molded hood pad anymore...I think your best bet would be to use some of the same insulating material to cover the inside of the hood.

I had a dealer do a nationwide search for a new OEM hood pad for '94 back a few years ago. There was not a single one left at any dealer anywhere. I did purchase one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-1996-FORD-F-150-92-97-F-250-F-350-HOOD-INSULATION-PAD-/330811502747?fits=Year%3A1997%7CMake%3AFord&hash=item4d05e6f09b&vxp=mtr and it is decent. Not as nice as OEM, but fits well without cutting. The mice still like it just as well as the OEM pad:backoff
 

BR3

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As for hood temps with no insulation, this was my solution.

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I have no way of telling how much good its done yet, as my truck has been immobile for a couple of months for various reasons (mostly super duty axle swap and lift) but it is all aluminum and I made sure the hole is sizeable. Strictly for underhood temp purposes as I have the snorkel for intake. I want to see how much it helps and then I will decide if I want to add additional louvers after that.

That being said I'm not sure a totally cool hood top would change vent temos either though because like warden mentioned, there is that rather large heat sink area if sheet metal under hood that the cowl has to pull through. Hmmm.....

Bill, thanks for documenting exactly what you've found in detail, when I started my venture for cooler temps a while back, I couldn't find any of this info and I know it'll be helpful to someone when they begin too. And we all know us penguins living in heat have to have colder ac!

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BR3

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That would be sweet, our underhood structure just wasn't yielding too it haha. Believe me, if I could have safely, I would have haha

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