justinray
Contributor
Inline pump would require either a weird mount, or a custom intake, I like te idea of dual IP's more honestly due partially to the redundancy of it, and it can still be compact.
Dual IP with a twist - Hello me brainstorm this out
- Thread starter WisdomWarlord
- Start date
88 Ford
Full Access Member
I understand the part of why he wants to do it but no matter which way you go, you still will have to build a mount. And building an intake would be a lot easier than doing the other stuff to make two IPs work. But if WisdonWarlord wants to do all that and make some power that is awesome as well. There is always more than one way to do stuff and if he can do it then by all means go for it.
jaluhn83
Full Access Member
I seriously doubt that dual injections pumps would be easier than a single inline. Very seriously doubt. Plus you have issues of pump synchronization, staging, timing, interaction, etc.
Wouldn't be that hard to make a custom intake. I had a plan to cut the center out of one and have essentially the PSD intake setup with 2 separate runners and an open center. Didn't look like it'd be hard, but it turned out that I couldn't get the inlet pipes to fit around the injection lines and turbo.
Probably you could use the stock gear case / gear with some modification. A dual pump setup if going to require a custom case, gearing, etc.
Wouldn't be that hard to make a custom intake. I had a plan to cut the center out of one and have essentially the PSD intake setup with 2 separate runners and an open center. Didn't look like it'd be hard, but it turned out that I couldn't get the inlet pipes to fit around the injection lines and turbo.
Probably you could use the stock gear case / gear with some modification. A dual pump setup if going to require a custom case, gearing, etc.
the limiting factor on running a DS4 is the rotor drive shaft has a tendency to snap internally. I had a hybrid built just for experimenting sake and it lasted two weeks. the post morteum revealed the weakness. but oh boy could I black out the sky until the turbo caught up
88 Ford
Full Access Member
the limiting factor on running a DS4 is the rotor drive shaft has a tendency to snap internally. I had a hybrid built just for experimenting sake and it lasted two weeks. the post morteum revealed the weakness. but oh boy could I black out the sky until the turbo caught up
Is the drive shaft that you speak of the cam pin? I do know that the Db4 hybrid used a bigger cam pin for the same reason so that could be a possibility if someone wanted to go that route. Also what did you have your Ds4 hybrid on? That sounds kind of interesting.
WisdomWarlord
Registered User
So lets say I build this and it works well. Its running with enough turbo to blow in something like 50psi. What happens if one of the IP's fail on me? My assumtion is that the only thing is that I lose power, but only down to the level of what a single IP IDI would have. The excess boost wouldn't matter and would soon drop because the exhaust flow would drop with less fuel.
I'm asking because I'm not very experienced with turbo diesel engines. I know that if this situation, losing half the fuel, happened on a gasoline engine, and there wasnt a real fast engine managment computer there to read a million data points in a second to compensate, the gasser would blow up pretty disasterously, pretty fast. I've actually had that happen when a fuel pressure regulator failed and dropped my fuel pressure from 60psi to 10. It wasnt pretty. I learned that the first gen buick SFI system wasn't as fast as the detonation caused by starving that poor little V6 of fuel at full throttle and 25psi.
Am I right im my assumtion that the diesel would not really care about less fuel, except Lower power and maybe cooler EGT's?
I'm asking because I'm not very experienced with turbo diesel engines. I know that if this situation, losing half the fuel, happened on a gasoline engine, and there wasnt a real fast engine managment computer there to read a million data points in a second to compensate, the gasser would blow up pretty disasterously, pretty fast. I've actually had that happen when a fuel pressure regulator failed and dropped my fuel pressure from 60psi to 10. It wasnt pretty. I learned that the first gen buick SFI system wasn't as fast as the detonation caused by starving that poor little V6 of fuel at full throttle and 25psi.
Am I right im my assumtion that the diesel would not really care about less fuel, except Lower power and maybe cooler EGT's?
aofarrell2
Turbo Desirous
The diesel could care less.
A question I have, is COULD a IDI safely handle 50psi? I only ask because there was one IDI guy who ran twin turbos &c and he had to use rubber freeze plugs and the like - I do not know how much boost he was running, but it had to be insane because he dyno'd close to 1200RWHP, he ripped trannies up like mad too I am told lolol... I would have to raise the concern of too high EGTs unless you used water injection, nmb2s build details that (i think that was the name). If you ask me, the IDI heads need reworking to handle that much boost to keep EGTs low. Just my .02...
A question I have, is COULD a IDI safely handle 50psi? I only ask because there was one IDI guy who ran twin turbos &c and he had to use rubber freeze plugs and the like - I do not know how much boost he was running, but it had to be insane because he dyno'd close to 1200RWHP, he ripped trannies up like mad too I am told lolol... I would have to raise the concern of too high EGTs unless you used water injection, nmb2s build details that (i think that was the name). If you ask me, the IDI heads need reworking to handle that much boost to keep EGTs low. Just my .02...
it could very well be what you're describing. i'm not very good with the terminology on the pump internals. i was running this on my f450 carrier. I ddin't talk about it much due to the fact it failed so quickly. the pump shop who built it, moved out of the area a year later, so I don't have a source for exotic builds anymore. he did reportedly build one more for someone up in Idaho though.
88 Ford
Full Access Member
That is quite interesting. What all did you do to make that pump work on an IDI. I am assuming you retrofitted the sensors and the drive by wire? Would you go into a lil detail about that? Also how did you set up the computer and how was it tuned?
dual ips would use a gm pump with the same ford gear running off the ford stock pump gear. then a custom housing thats the easy part. the hard part is the injectors. as for the injectors id run the other injector more inboard than the first. (think under intake) this would be the only realistic placement but heads would need lots of work. with a few degree delay it would give the multi port style setup but you would need to run compounds to keep up with the fuel unless you de tune the pumps. then after a detune a fully built pump with db4 internals would push more fuel with less work great idea but the ability to carry out is missing due to all the stuff needed to be done. i would rather buy the inline and custom adaptor and possibly fab an intake than remove and machine heads
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