Cracked Head? (Sick to my stomach...)

[junk]

7K for a motor is a lot. I did put a $5500 motor in mine though back in the day. If it was me I would look at getting the engine diagnosed better. compression test, maybe coolant pressure test, etc. Then pull the engine and rebuild it. If your not comfortable going through it maybe have a local engine rebuilder go through it. Or at least just pull it apart and replace the bad parts. I'm guessing the last mechanic missed something. I'm leaning toward bad headgasket job since it did run pretty good for a while then started having issues.

I'm thinking a 1,000 car to get by until you figure out what to do with the truck would be a good deal in my book.

 

[icanfixall]

Well this has a funny odor to it. First off someone replaces the head gaskets. then sells the rig... It runs fine but fails for an unknown reason. Now some less than compident shops are drooling at the chance to **** you on replacement costs... Well its time to back up.. No shop is rightly going to make you feel better charging those fees. Back to why the head gaskets were replaced and di that guy do a good job.. My thoughts are probably not because it did last till you drove off with it.. Had that job been a complete failure from the first start then you would have seen this. Now if that guy poured stop leak into the coolant you might not have seen a problem till you got on the road like you did. My feelings are the head gasket job was a bad job done by someone that had no business in an engine. So the coolant is going out the exhaust. Now add the oil in hte coolant issues and it very well may be an oil cooler o ring too. But clearly a head gasket leak will cause oil from the diesel combustion to enter the coolant. So both heads will have to come off. Test them for probalems and also replace the o rings in the oil cooler when the heads are off. There will be plenty of room to easily remove the cooler then. It is going to get expensive replacing anti freeze till you fix this. No need to buy heads yet till you know they are shot or good to go..

 

[lilredtdi]

Hey OP, sorry for your bad experience. That is a really nice and clean truck you have. Don't know about where you are but even non working that thing got to be worth 2K to someone that can get it running. For what you already have in it it would be cheaper to keep her.

Reading your other threads and this one you have so far not taken the advice here and got the compression test. Seems to me if you have that much coolant going out the tailpipe a compression test will confirm. I know you had a mechanic say it is not going out exhaust but that much coolant is either going out the tailpipe or leaking on the ground. Even if it was leaking on the ground only while driving upon stopping the underneath of the truck would be SOAKED and dripping on the ground.

I don't have enough experience but would it be possible that the head bolts were never properly torqued? Maybe when the compression test is done you can have them checked as well. It would sure be nice to just be able to tighten them but I doubt you will get that lucky.

In the mean time scan CL for a temporary junker to drive. Something simple and reliable so you can save money to repair ford. You can get Toyota Tercel 5spd's for cheap and they get an easy 32-35 mpg and cheap to repair. I see them here in a more expensive market from $800-1400 or so in pretty good condition. The FWD with some good snow-tires should get you around ok.

Anyway, good luck to you and Hank.

 

[79jasper]

In his other thread, he said it doesn't really use oil IIRC, but found a "oily residue" in the coolant tank.
I was thinking it may have been a stop leak.

Gary, that's a pretty good explanation.

 

[79jasper]

I don't have enough experience but would it be possible that the head bolts were never properly torqued?

That was also my thinking.
But by now, it'd be too late to simply just tighten them.

 

[nitroguy]

Yeah, thanks for all the help guys, I really do appreciate it!

I haven't been able to do all the diagnostics suggested, I wanted to think through the "why" behind each of them before I had the mechanic do the work. Again, it kills me I can't do the work myself, but time simply prohibits that (at this point).

I called Mechanic C this morning to have him run a comp test on all cylinders, then I'll bring it back home. I agree that THAT much coolant, without it going on the ground, will HAVE to show up in the comp test. Quick question on that: if all cylinders read low, does that mean worn sleeves or improperly torqued bolts? But if one has little (or no) compression, that'd be either a localized head gasket issue or cracked head or block worm? Is that thinking sound?

Again, thanks for all the help! In the mean time, I'll start looking for a little runaround car. I will say this: THIS board has saved me from the brink. I was (as I said) practically sick to my stomach after the mechanics (vultures?) gave me "the news". This board has restored my hope in humanity. Or at least car people. ;-)

GOOSE:
Thanks for the offer! As Typ has said, I very well may be taking you up on that very generous offer. Let me get my comp tests back and I'll get a hold of you. Thanks!

Typ: You're in Newberg?! How have I not seen that? I went to George Fox a few years ago and absolutely love that town! One of my very good friends owns a shop down there, he's one that really got me into diesels. Small world!

 

[79jasper]

I called Mechanic C this morning to have him run a comp test on all cylinders, then I'll bring it back home. I agree that THAT much coolant, without it going on the ground, will HAVE to show up in the comp test. Quick question on that: if all cylinders read low, does that mean worn sleeves or improperly torqued bolts? But if one has little (or no) compression, that'd be either a localized head gasket issue or cracked head or block worm? Is that thinking sound?

Mostly right thinking, but it shouldn't be sleeved already.
Improperly torqued bolts could show up localized to one cylinder.
If all show low compression, you have way bigger problems.

 

[lilredtdi]

OP, I know you just moved, have limited funds and time plus the weather and lack of a real work area are hampering you but you are starting to sound a bit whiny and not going through this in chronological order causing you frustration.

First, I would network the people you work with, the parents of the kids your kids go to school with etc. and find an independent mechanic who is a diesel specialist who will not **** you. There is great power in word of mouth reccomendations. You could also go to your local Ford dealer and if it has an area dedicated to Ford heavy trucks ask the guys if they do side work. Look at the services section of CL and type in DIESEL you may find an indy that will work. Take the info you got here and jot down bullett point notes to ask before the new to you mechanic separates you from your $$$$$$$. If I understood correctly in your one post a shop wanted 7K for an engine and almost another 7K to install??? Run from that place and make sure to tell your neighbors and friends what kind of a shister joint that place is.

Personally if were me, I would spend a hundred bucks for a compression tester and bite the bullett and do it my self. You could do a few at a time and record the result. You say you don't have time or money but you have to decide which one you have the most of. You say you need to spend time with family but if you do not have proper transportation you may be spending more time with them than you would like if you lose your job.

I am not judging, I just replaced all 8 glowplugs and GP controller in my driveway(no garage), at night, in 35 degree weather with a drop light. I did it because I do not trust anyone to do the work and $$$ are tight. I would rather eff something up myself than pay someone to do bad work. I also pulled the head on my TDI and removed the valves from a timing belt fail to inspect, in the driveway. Took me the better part of a month working a few hours here and there as time and weather permitted.

I own 3 vehicles. Why do you ask? Because all three have in excess of 200K on them. After 200K or 10 years any car/truck is on borrowed time in my mind so you have to plan that you WILL breakdown and need something else to drive. With new rides payments costing $450 a month at minimum not counting insurance, fuel and routine maintenance driving a paid off ride will almost always be the cheaper option. My three rides with full insurance on them all is only $1600 per year in the DC area. That is less than 4 months payment on a new ride with a note.

Still good luck. Get that compression test done. If engine or heads are shot I guess you *could* try retorquing head bolts and use some head gasket leak stopper but most likely you will being more harm than good and damaging the engine further. That truck is too nice to damage further and OBS trucks in that shape are getting really hard to find.

 

[icanfixall]

My thoughts are continueing to be a bad head gasket job. Maybe the heads and block were not cleaned properly or the threads in the block were not cleaned all the way to the bottom. Bolts could be torqued wrong too. We have no idea what kind od torque wrench... If any was used. A torque wrench needs to be calibrated yearly in my oppinnion. That way you will know it correct instead of guessing it right. Looking back it seems more likely there was a head gasket issue. So they got replaced and done poorly at that. Not a need yet... To get another set of heads but have them available anyway. I call it... "Getting all your ducks in a row"... I know the town of Kalispel is small compared to many other towns but I'm sure there is a good mechanic in a shop somewhere. Find a Ford Dealer and talk to the diesel mechanics about doing some private work for you. Even a chevy diesel mechanic may have the smarts to pull the heads and do an oil cooler while its easy to reach.. BTW the exhaust manifolds can stay on the heads when this work is done. Nothing in the way leaving them on but they do add some weight to an already heavy head. Getting them off by one person is not hard... But installing them by one person is horrible. Way too much chance of damaging the head gaskets. If the heads come off. You will see very easily which cylinder had the parblem. That piston will be almost spotlessly clean. The coolany blows away the carbon on the surfaces. If you decide to let the engine sit please run the engine once a week. That way if any coolant in in a cylinder it will clean it out. Hopefully the engine wont fill a cylinder and hydrolock. That could be harmfull too.

 

[79jasper]

If needed, I can probably post a picture of the "cleaning" Gary talked about.

 

[Black dawg]

This engine needs a cooling system pressure test to determine where the coolant is going. I would pressurize it with the glow plugs out and figure out which cyl/s are taking coolant. This needs to be done before the motor is taken apart. Just pulling the glow plugs will probably show which cylinder/s are burning coolant. There should be one that looks steam cleaned.

I dont think the compression test will help much as far as the coolant consumption is concerned.

Has there been any sign of the cooling system getting overpressurized? I would also check cooling system pressure from a cold started engine. If this is a cracked head or head gasket issue, there should be obvious signs of combustion gas pressurizing the radiator.

 

[icanfixall]

About all a compression test will tell you is what a cylinder is for lbs. But its not going to tell you why that cylinder is at that lbs of cranking compression. Several reasons for a cylinder to have low compression. Even a bad seal on the gauge or the plug fitting. Bad bolt torque because of the hurry or poor cleanup done. Broken bolt. Damaged head gasket puting the heads on by one person and it finally failed on you instead of the other owner. Cracked head... Cavitation in the cylinder wall. So there are many reasons more too. Getting a compression test is information.. Having that helps but its not a conclusive result. It wil hopefully narrow down what cylinder is at fault. Just make sure both heads are removed. Its almost twice the work but in the end its half the trouble. Figure the work to go back in again because you didn't do both heads when the intake manifold was off. When doing the heads with the engine stil in the truck some pushrods wont come out because of stuff in the way. Same with a couple of head bolts. Just use some zip ties or rubber bands to hold them up while the head comes off. But remember they have to be back in the head the smae way or you will never get them in after the head in in the block. I hope you go ask a diesel mechanic at a Ford dealer about doing this work for you. Surely someone will jump at making some extra cash plus they may get you a better deal on parts. Just ask here before buying anything. We can advise on price easily. If your going to pressureize the cooling system looking for a leak don't go higher than 16 lbs. Much more will ruin the radiater tanks. Also shake the water pump pulley. If it moves any probably the bearings and seal are shot. I had a water pump seal leak only after the engine was attempting to warm up. The donut house was about 2 minutes from my home. On my way to work I stopped for a doze donut holes. When I came out there was coolant under my truck. Thought it was someone else till I opened the hood. Under the shaft there is a weak hole for coolant to leak out so as not to ruin the bearing.. It leaks out but the bearngs are ruined by then anyway.. If you can't see under the pump with a mirror just feel under there. You shopuld not get any coolant on your fingers at all. Its a place to loose coolant. Because I run a steam distilled water and a high grade coolant I never see a stain from coolant leaks. Many of my leaks are from a hose clamp not being tight enough. So once a month I adjust the clamps because I have seen some of them leaking a very tiny amount over time.

 

[junk]

I called Mechanic C this morning to have him run a comp test on all cylinders, then I'll bring it back home. I agree that THAT much coolant, without it going on the ground, will HAVE to show up in the comp test. Quick question on that: if all cylinders read low, does that mean worn sleeves or improperly torqued bolts? But if one has little (or no) compression, that'd be either a localized head gasket issue or cracked head or block worm? Is that thinking sound?

Again, thanks for all the help! In the mean time, I'll start looking for a little runaround car. I will say this: THIS board has saved me from the brink. I was (as I said) practically sick to my stomach after the mechanics (vultures?) gave me "the news". This board has restored my hope in humanity. Or at least car people. ;-)

If you had a bad head gasket, head crack, or cylinder issue I would expect you to have a cylinder or two with low compression not all. I will be surprised if you end up with all cylinders being really low. If they are all low you should have low compression and hard starting issues also which you haven't asked about. I would also say that a coolant system pressure test would be good to figure out which cylinders the water is going down if the mechanic couldn't tell from the glowplugs. Basically while it's together and runs I'd run a few test to help diagnose it before it gets torn into.

One other avenue to get it fixed is there a local community college near by? Some of them might fix it for parts to give the students experience.

Good luck on finding a shop to preform the work. There has to be a good shop local there. MT is like diesel heaven from what I can tell on craigslist when I'm looking at trucks. Truthfully if the shop quoted you 7K to put in a drop in replacement engine that seems fine to me. So I don't think they were out of line at all. I wouldn't discount them, but ask them what other options they might have. Also maybe check around at implement dealers, we had a John Deere shop that worked on diesel pickups all the time back in South Dakota.

 

[Black dawg]

Well this has a funny odor to it. First off someone replaces the head gaskets. then sells the rig... It runs fine but fails for an unknown reason. Now some less than compident shops are drooling at the chance to **** you on replacement costs... Well its time to back up.. No shop is rightly going to make you feel better charging those fees. Back to why the head gaskets were replaced and di that guy do a good job.. My thoughts are probably not because it did last till you drove off with it.. Had that job been a complete failure from the first start then you would have seen this. Now if that guy poured stop leak into the coolant you might not have seen a problem till you got on the road like you did. My feelings are the head gasket job was a bad job done by someone that had no business in an engine. So the coolant is going out the exhaust. Now add the oil in hte coolant issues and it very well may be an oil cooler o ring too. But clearly a head gasket leak will cause oil from the diesel combustion to enter the coolant. So both heads will have to come off. Test them for probalems and also replace the o rings in the oil cooler when the heads are off. There will be plenty of room to easily remove the cooler then. It is going to get expensive replacing anti freeze till you fix this. No need to buy heads yet till you know they are shot or good to go..

my bet is that the guy mis diagnosed it, and then didnt look at stuff close enough while it was apart. If he had the motor out, it would be pretty hard to mess up doing headgaskets. Head gaskets isnt a problem area on 7.3s.

 

[Black dawg]

Another thought I had is that if you make the radiator cap not hold pressure (vents all pressure to overflow bottle), the coolant consumption should go down (till you can get this fixed).