Brownie Box or Spicer 5831

[Diesel JD]

Hey I determined for the time being to just go with my T19 installation but in the future I'd like to install some sort of auxillary overdrive. I keep hering some of you guys talk about the Spicer 5831, and I also have read about an even older 2 speed Brown-Lipe aux box. I've seen pics though, of the 5831 and these things are BIG, so I wonder...ahs anyone actually done it, and knows what is involved in terms of fabricating special parts and what needs to be gotten from the donor vehicle? Also what's fair to pay for these things and what do they weigh(shipping would be killer if not in the area I'm sure) I hear that they mount behind the main transmission which is cool(not to have to take that back down like for a Ranger or some other O/Ds). Just trying to determine if this is the road I want to go down... thanks,
JD

 

[FordGuy100]

I think when most refer to a brownie box, they where talking about the Spicer unit, at least thats what I got out of it.


I wouldnt think that getting it to work would be all that hard. You would have to find how it mounts to the back of a tranny, maybe it would fit onto the T19 like a transfer case?

Then you would need to figure out how to support it, and build a crossmember to do so. You would need to get a shortened driveshaft, with the right yokes on it, cause I'm sure the spicer/brownie box's output yoke (or whatever the heck those things are called, where the U joints go ) is different than the one found on the back of a T19 or a transfer case. Then you would just need to figure out how to rig up the linkage, and you should be all done and set to go.

I would do this, but to be honest I think with an overdrive case behind the transfer case, my driveshaft angle would be to much, and I would wear out U joints way to fast.

 

[NCheek]

I think RLDSL has one in his truck, I PMed him the other day about Spicer 5831 info and he has a lot of good stuff. If he doesn't post in this thread, PM him and he will point you in the right direction.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

All of the BrownLipes, Spicers, Danas, etc. are DIVORCE-MOUNT units that are an act in simplicity to mount behind any transmission or transfer-case.

The unit I have been gathering odds and ends in preperation of installing is a Dana/Spicer FOUR-speed unit, the number leaves me at the moment, but I think 4831 or somesuch.

It has two underdrives, a direct, and an over; behind my current 5-speed, that will yield twenty forward gears and four reverses.

The ultra-low reverses will really come in handy for backing heavy trailers into bad spots.


Compared to the genuine "brownie" auxilliaries, all of the trendy store-bought units are kinda flimsy and toyish.




I just need to quit finding other less important things to do and start in on getting this project underway.

 

[FordGuy100]

All of the BrownLipes, Spicers, Danas, etc. are DIVORCE-MOUNT units that are an act in simplicity to mount behind any transmission or transfer-case.

The unit I have been gathering odds and ends in preperation of installing is a Dana/Spicer FOUR-speed unit, the number leaves me at the moment, but I think 4831 or somesuch.

It has two underdrives, a direct, and an over; behind my current 5-speed, that will yield twenty forward gears and four reverses.

The ultra-low reverses will really come in handy for backing heavy trailers into bad spots.


Compared to the genuine "brownie" auxilliaries, all of the trendy store-bought units are kinda flimsy and toyish.




I just need to quit finding other less important things to do and start in on getting this project underway.

Where do you guys find these units? I mean I've looked on ebay, craigslist, and I havent found them on there. Maybe I'll have to go to a wrecking yard with some wrecked medium duty trucks and go looking around?

 

[Diesel JD]

So true Justin. Robert(RLDSL) posted info to a yard( I think it was in your part of the country) where he bought his. It looked like it could get expensive if you don't have a core, but that might not be the case. Nothing on ebay, total waste. I'd think a medium duty wrecking yard would be a great resource. I don't know where one is, but I'll be looking. I wonder if anyone has even a somewhat complete list of what these came in. I've heard 2.5 and 5 ton GMC trucks(Asplundh bucket trucks??) Old Macks, Old Ford medium duty (think 50s and 60s this is for the 2 speed). There are plenty of new Spicer trannies on ebay, but they are probably way too big and they're real expensive too. I know RLDSL has one I'd love to hear his plan for adpating it in his F350, and I'd really like to hear from someone who's already done it. I know there are one or two of them lurking around here. Brimmstone I think it was...

 

[RLDSL]

The 5831 is one of the smaller units, see the picture, I put the bottle of tea in there for size perspective. The big truck boneyards that carry these things will likely also have the shifters and the crossmembers needed to mount them. you would not want to try to mount them without them. the rear could be fabricated, but the front consists of a semi floating sleeve suspension to allow for a bit of movement under torque, without that floater, something gotta give The boneyards that have them not surprizingly are in the pacific northwest and coal country ( log trucks dump trucks and coal trucks inthe mountains used lots of these things ) The new aux boxes available are twin countershaft boxes. They would work, but they would be extremely heavy and large and would eat up a lot of power in the extra drag, not very efficient for this size engine
The older boxes came in 3 and 4 speed models in various gear ratio combinations . anyone shopping for one of these things needs to do some research because you can't just grab one, you need to find one that is going to have a gear set that combined with your tranny and rear end, is going to be able to give you nice even splits between gears between direct and OD on a 3 speed and ud dd and od on a 4 speed, this becomes a little more complicated than it sounds because big truck trannys have evenly spaced gears while pickup trannys do not
the weight on the things range from 155 pounds for a 5831 up to 960 for a 9441 which is a pump lubricated model. The twin countershaft jobs get a whole lot bigger than that. I have a PDF file with a reference spec sheet with all of the specs of the things if anyone needs it, and I also have factory manuals for just about all of the old spicer trannys and aux boxes and PTOs
Bearings and seals are still available for the 5831, gaskets are not, have to use Locktite Gasket eliminator 518 anaerobic this is the recomended by the folks who now manufacture the spicer aux 1241 and the older unit replacement parts .Silliscum is a big no-no ( spicer no longer manufactures its 1241, it is now made by TTC
they also have a bunch of manuals downloadable on their site on that page
Full rebuild kits are available for the rest of the aux boxes here

A few yards that generallly have the things in stock
http://www.adelmans.com/atruckparts.html
http://www.a-atruckparts.com/Transmissions.aspx
http://www.andersonbrotherstruck.com/parts/?cat=transmissions

Driveshaft modification will be interesting. First thing I did when I picked it up at the freight terminal was drop by the driveshaft shop and he wsn't to concerned about it. IT's going to have larger joints on one end than the other but so long as it[s balanced , no worries . The smallest flange yoke that you can get that will bolt up to the pattern on these things is for a 1410 ujoint and the truck has 1350.

I'm still in the middle of cleaning mine up and getting ready to pop new seals in and replace the gaskets I don't want to dump a bunch of high dollar synthetic powershift transmision fluid on the ground. It had sat for a while, so I'm being patient with it floating some grime stains off the splines and such. I don't want anything coming loose later.

 

[Diesel JD]

Its about the size of the T19 itself I reckon. Thanks for that article Robert, good info. That's what I was looking for. I think I'll wait and see how your install goes. I'm going to drive the thing with the T19 by itself for a few months and I may just be happy with it, but the ability to split gears and have that OD is pretty cool you have to admit. Of course a writeup once you actually do it would be really pretty neat too, especially with lots of pictures. Also thanks for the warning about the ratios. I'll have that T19 and 3.55 gears... don't know what that means match wise.

 

[Diesel JD]

Anderson Brothers is right in your backyard Justin, might not be cheaper than a ZF 5 though. $850 used ouch!

 

[RLDSL]

Its about the size of the T19 itself I reckon. Thanks for that article Robert, good info. That's what I was looking for. I think I'll wait and see how your install goes. I'm going to drive the thing with the T19 by itself for a few months and I may just be happy with it, but the ability to split gears and have that OD is pretty cool you have to admit. Of course a writeup once you actually do it would be really pretty neat too, especially with lots of pictures. Also thanks for the warning about the ratios. I'll have that T19 and 3.55 gears... don't know what that means match wise.

I'll definitely be taking lots of pictures when I get to stuffing this thing in. It's about time somebody did. we've got some bonus money coming in in about two weeks so the projects will start rolling again

Unfortunately, I've forgot the formula for figuring the final drive ratio for each gear, apparently the gray on top of the old gray matter is shorting it out , I had however started working up figures on different combinations for a few of the boxes with different rear ends with the zf5 and it's on an open office spread sheet if anyone wants a copy. I think I had quite a few calculated all the way out. before i bought my box.

 

[Dieselguy123]

I currently have a DNE2 Behind my t-18(Yes its from a gasser) That I may be putting up for sale soon. I want to just get a zf for my truck cause my clutch is going south and I also may do a 4x4 conversion, With my Truck being a reg cab short bed there isnt alot of room for a divorced t-case so I think I will just stick a 4x4 zf in it and ditch the overdrive unit. If your possibly interested in that shoot me a PM.

 

[discbrks]

and I'd really like to hear from someone who's already done it.

My dad did it some years ago in an old '75ish F-350 w/a 390. He's still got it. It has a New process 4-speed, 18" (I think) driveshaft, 3 speed brownie box, and driveshaft out to the rearend. It looks neat having twin sticks comming thru the floor. If I remember right, the brownie sits almost at the back of the cab, but the shift linkage moves the shifter up to about the tailstock of the 4-speed (if that makes any sense). If you guys need pics I can try to get some... or I'll get him to get on here & post about it.

 

[FordGuy100]

My dad did it some years ago in an old '75ish F-350 w/a 390. He's still got it. It has a New process 4-speed, 18" (I think) driveshaft, 3 speed brownie box, and driveshaft out to the rearend. It looks neat having twin sticks comming thru the floor. If I remember right, the brownie sits almost at the back of the cab, but the shift linkage moves the shifter up to about the tailstock of the 4-speed (if that makes any sense). If you guys need pics I can try to get some... or I'll get him to get on here & post about it.

Yes, get some pics for us, and tell him to come on and post up what he did

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

Just about every old rear-discharge ready-mix concrete truck I ever looked in had some kind of brownie auxilliary in it.

 

[foxman]

Yes, As dskbrks said, his dad did this back in 87. The truck is a 69 F350 frame w/390 bored .060 w/427 crank and rods. It has a New Process435 4sp with a 16" drive shaft feeding the front of the Brownie 3 way. The crossmember to mount this thing is completely fabricated as is the shifter which is mounted on left side of main trans. This gives a total of 12 forward and 3 reverse gears. To my belief the only ones to ever drive this and go thru all 12 are diskbrkes and myself (fixman) And yes , I still have this truck. It has dump bed, air compressor, air-ride driver seat, air tank on frame. This was a 6 month project built from ground up. It wound up with a 77 F150 cab.