4WD IDI C6 are hard to find?

[IDIBRONCO]

Found one, waiting on a price with the blackbox doubler he won't separate....

There's worse things that could happen that getting the doubler.

 

[onetonjohn]

what's a doubler? Googled it. Sounds awsome. Now I have something else I need. .

 

[Clb]

Underdrive .
Essentially "doubles " the input revolutions.
Effectively halving the number of rpm's of the tires.
Do homework, decide if you "need" one.
They are pricey but...

 

[david85]

So the 460/c6 bellhousing on the transmission would need to be checked to see if it has enough "meat" to redrill it to the diesel pattern.

So someone with a bunch of parts laying around, needs to hold up the international adapter against a 460 c6 and see what it looks like. If you had your idi out, I guess you could unbolt the adapter and take it to the junkyard with you.

I think a few already tried this many years ago but I don't remember if it was on oilburners or FTE.com. The consensus was that it wasn't possible.

The ZF5 was done by Typ4 many years ago. I think he used to have an excellent photograph showing the diesel pattern on the gasser bellhousing but I can't find it.

Sadly, we lost Russ not too long ago, so he won't be chiming in.

 

[david85]

I think a few already tried this many years ago but I don't remember if it was on oilburners or FTE.com. The consensus was that it wasn't possible.

The ZF5 was done by Typ4 many years ago. I think he used to have an excellent photograph showing the diesel pattern on the gasser bellhousing but I can't find it.

Sadly, we lost Russ not too long ago, so he won't be chiming in.

Ok, I managed to find one of his older posts (almost 20 years ago. My God, where did the time go?). See Post #8:

plate between C6 and 6.9???

it appears that my 85 E350 has an adapter plate (all factory) from the 6.9 to the C6 auto tranny....is this a big block c6 thats adapted to fit the 6.9??...whats the deal with the adapter if its not? im just curious to see if its a factory plate that they used allowing them to use bigblock...

www.oilburners.net

 

[IDIBRONCO]

The ZF5 was done by Typ4 many years ago. I think he used to have an excellent photograph showing the diesel pattern on the gasser bellhousing but I can't find it.

The adapter plate on the back of all Ford IDIs is a good pattern.

 

[onetonjohn]

I wouldn't use is on my IDI (I need overdrive, not reduction), but I have an 80 bronco that will be the "family wheeler" some day. It's got a C6 too. As long as it has the 31 spine output shaft for borg warner and not what ever the new process is, I think I would useful. The problem might be that I think folks like the early NP T-case for wheeling,and it may not be setup for BW. In my swap investigation, I found that the bell housing and 4WD adapter is different from gas to diesel, output shafts can be different (depending on attached transfer case) , and 2wd vs. 4wd output shafts and rear bearing setup are different gas to diesel. I suppose that's why it was harder than I thought it would be.

 

[Nero]

What if.... You install the double down backwards? Then you'll get a double up

 

[XOLATEM]

I have written about this before but I can't take the time to find it and repost...

And I am not trying to dis or denigrate anyone else on here that has a lot more mechanical smarts and experience than I do...

BUT...

From a transmission man standpoint, one who has seen bunches of pump bushings worn out or worse, spun out and thereby chewing up the pump housing so as to make it un-useable...

AND seeing what happens to the rest of the transmission over time while it slowly contaminates itself until you have ATF pouring out of the front seal...all from a 'slight' misalignment from the back of the engine to the front pump of the transmission...

I am not going to recommend trying to adapt any 460 case to the diesel. Period.

Yeah, yeah, there are those that say they have done it and driven a million miles on it...

For me, no.

Not unless I happen to find myself in a post-apocalyptic world and I gotta 'just' throw something together to run over and smash a bunch of zombies.

For the world we find ourselves in right now with the money and power-hungry revenooers out there just waiting to write another book of tickets and thieves waiting to bust your windows and steal your stereo and tools I am not going to chance a breakdown and sideline to a dumb thing like that.

The clearances for the pump bushing, torque convertor, and the engine-to-transmission case alignment are measured in THOUSANDS of an inch, not 'tenths'.

I have never been able to drill a straight hole in my LIFE...without some kind of jig.

If you can pull that off, more power to you...but...'they' stopped making C-6 pumps decades ago.

Going the 'other' way...that is...drilling a standard shift bell housing to bolt up to a diesel, sure, go ahead...it is only a bit more wear on the syncros and bearings and grinding up reverse gear a little more over the course of the units' lifetime before rebuild...you probably could get away with that...

BUT...reverse gear and getting to it in a ZF is expensive and a chore...but hell...it is your money and time. Have you tried to get any reverse parts for a T-19 lately..?

So...John...please...if you want a C-6, just find an original diesel case and build it up. You can convert any C-6 unit to 4x4. You need an output shaft and a good transmission builder to help you.

Don't forget to fix the problem with the number '9' thrust washer unless the thing has a needle bearing there. during the 1987-88 model year 'they' went to finally fix that concern.

And...if you get tired of messing with it...I will take the truck off your hands...that darn truck has always look extremely handsome to me.

'nuff said.

 

[XOLATEM]

What if.... You install the double down backwards? Then you'll get a double up

How would that affect the cupholder..?

 

[onetonjohn]

Thanks Xolatem. Thanks for your perspective. I had already ruled out gas/deisel case swap case of the T-case adapter clocking the T-case at a different angle. Is the #9 thrust washer the one by the rear planet? I suppose I can check the manual, but just curious. As for truck, you'd have to fight my Nephew for it. He's had his eye on it since he was 4. He's go dibs, but hopefully it's going to be a while.

 

[onetonjohn]

I don't know, but I dont' have a cup holder in there... Maybe I need to go back to the cup holder thread.

 

[XOLATEM]

As for truck, you'd have to fight my Nephew for it. He's had his eye on it since he was 4. He's go dibs, but hopefully it's going to be a while.

I'll wrassle him for it, sight unseen. I don't care how big he is...for that truck I think it's worth it.

The no# 9 washer is the one between the rear planetary hub and the low-reverse roller clutch race.

The problem you run into with those is from 1966-1986 they only got splash lubrication. Under severe load you can overheat it and it will gall on the race and wipe out. Around 1987 a roller bearing was tried and then later a captured Torrington bearing was finally put there. The rest of the geartrain has to be sized to make room for it so you can't just put a bearing in any unit and expect for the clearances to work out.

I came up with a fix for it that I made work without making people pay for the roller setup.

The captured needle bearing was used on all E4OD's...no worries there.

If your nephew doesn't want to wrassle...how about a duel..? Paintball guns at ten paces..?

 

[Clb]

Fwiw
I didn't pay attention to the specs for the whole truck I posted the trans for, but it's in grass valley available whole for cheap according to the owner...

 

[franklin2]

I wouldn't use is on my IDI (I need overdrive, not reduction), but I have an 80 bronco that will be the "family wheeler" some day. It's got a C6 too. As long as it has the 31 spine output shaft for borg warner and not what ever the new process is, I think I would useful. The problem might be that I think folks like the early NP T-case for wheeling,and it may not be setup for BW. In my swap investigation, I found that the bell housing and 4WD adapter is different from gas to diesel, output shafts can be different (depending on attached transfer case) , and 2wd vs. 4wd output shafts and rear bearing setup are different gas to diesel. I suppose that's why it was harder than I thought it would be.

All transfer cases used in any year Ford use the same spline and same bolt pattern and will bolt up, except the 6 speed stuff which is different.

The shifters can be different, the mounts and I do not know about the clocking thing. But any brand transfer case that was in a Ford full size, will bolt up to any 4x4 transmission that was in a Ford full size truck, including the early 70's stuff. F150, F250, F350 all used the same transfer cases, different brands from year to year.

And of course some transfer cases had fixed output, some had slip yoke. But doesn't matter, they will all bolt up to the spline and the adapter pattern on the tranny.