DB2 vs DB4 pump

Farmer Rock

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I would have to agree with @CBRF3 and @IDIBRONCO . Besides the fact that cummins are ridiculously expensive, I never really wanted one because everybody and their grandmother has one, and I just felt they aren't unique anymore. Of course they are good engines, but I have always rooted for the underdog, and am also a big IH and Ford guy, so to me the IDI in a ford is the perfect truck. Also parts are so much cheaper for the IDIs than the cummins. Call me old school, but there is no replacement for displacement. The Cummins are 360ci, the 6.9 idi is 420ci, and the 7.3 idi is 444ci. That is quite the difference. I am not down playing the cummins, or any inline 6 motors for that matter, but just pointing out that an IDI is obviously a lot bigger engine physically.




Rock
 

typ4

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400 and tow friendly is going to need several radiators to keep it cool.
 

ColLonewolf

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a few more pictures of that project everyone said it cant be done well we both said with a cutting torch and a welder along with determination anything can be done. I want to point out that truck is being designed for alaska as a short shot truck long wheelbase trucks don't do so well on some of those roads / pig paths there and add to it the fact short wheel base + fifth wheel or goose neck you got alot more agility / maneuverability especially with a short trailer and alot better weight distribution meaning more even traction and less risk of high centering in snow and such.


What are you using for transmissions on your swaps? Especially the 617 motors?
 

CBRF3

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the factory S10 v6 4.3 5speed manual with Tcase and a california offroads adapter to adapt the trans and motor and a clutch adapter setup they sell as a package and a V10 dodge viper starter if remember correctly.
 

CBRF3

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400 and tow friendly is going to need several radiators to keep it cool.
and a hell of a oil cooler because the piston squirters are going to be doing alot of work to try to cool the pistons and at 400WHP i bet those pistons swell so tight in the bore essentially siezing the motor and it shatters rods from that issue our pistons for our motors swell alot because of the compression and well ricardo cup design aka IDI our pistons get hot fast and literally melt or swell and sieze in the bore shattering rings or making rods shoot out the side of motor 400whp is insane for a tow rig for our motors. The point is would take a ton of money and a ton of 1 off custom made parts to allow this I tackled alot of it including custom made steal top pistons with wrist pin raised 13 or 15 thousands cannot remember exactly and they came out well over $500 a piston and custom ring grooves which were also a upgrade. I used larger rings with more tension and more modern alloy designed more for durability / longevity / better sealing and custom performance power stroke rods modified to my use and power stroke crank and rod bearings along with alot more and I never got near the 400whp. I got 325WHP / 720ftlb of torgue and that was with a custom HX50 pushing 28psi PSI is not everything CFM / density is very important as gale banks says the turbo is out to lunch. I spent alot of time / money designing and building that motor still have it and it runs like a beast but I would not dare trust it for towing and that motors has well over $10k in it so he needs to rethink his goals LOL.

The HX50 can make more air density with less charge heating issues than a HX35/40 can meaning less PSI is needed the HX35/40 even with crazy intercooling had to run much higher boost pressures to deliver 1/2 of what it took for the HX50 again I maxxed out 28psi on the HX50 to get much better density / CFM than a HX40 at 35psi+ could deliver. the fact is got more density / CFM at 23psi with the HX50 than the HX40 did at 33psi. So yes the HX50 took a bit longer to spool but that was easily compensated by adding more fuel aka HEAT to light off the HX50 earlier yeah she was coal rolling for 10 seconds but it cleaned out quick and let me tell you when the HX50 hit you better hang on beacause either tires were spinning all of them dually 4x4 or it shattered the rear end / drive shaft. I played that game several times in fact my rear dif exploded on the dyno ( dana 80 4.10 gears ) when I hit the 325WHP / 720ftlb of torgue ( numbers were likely higher but the dif exploded and couldn't take it ) so I can say I played with these motors and found theyre limits and the limit in which I would spend money on them to get stupid results.

when the HX 50 came on it was violent I have to say it rivals nitrous shots on our IDI's yes I did that also and propane injection along with water **** injection I did alot of crazy stuff years ago there is a reason why I have several of these trucks / motors and a barn full of just parts from my sacrificed motors LOL I found many of theyre limits the hard way and expensive way. I sacrificed like 15+ of these engines just experimenting and finding theyre limits and I also then designed and fabricated ways around them with a few other people.
 
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CBRF3

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I would have to agree with @CBRF3 and @IDIBRONCO . Besides the fact that cummins are ridiculously expensive, I never really wanted one because everybody and their grandmother has one, and I just felt they aren't unique anymore. Of course they are good engines, but I have always rooted for the underdog, and am also a big IH and Ford guy, so to me the IDI in a ford is the perfect truck. Also parts are so much cheaper for the IDIs than the cummins. Call me old school, but there is no replacement for displacement. The Cummins are 360ci, the 6.9 idi is 420ci, and the 7.3 idi is 444ci. That is quite the difference. I am not down playing the cummins, or any inline 6 motors for that matter, but just pointing out that an IDI is obviously a lot bigger engine physically.




Rock

also you cannot beat the exhaust note of our old IDI's they sing like a hopped up big block 460 music to my ears that deep low tone and grunt LOL and no cummins has this nor does any power stroke / duramax our engines have theyre own 1 of a kind sound again can pick our motors out of a crowd of other motors by theyre sound but you cannot hardly tell the difference of the others from each other all of them pretty well sound the same yes the cummins has its own sound but it is raspy and slobbery / lopey not the good old low tone grunt ours have.
 

79jasper

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Call me old school, but there is no replacement for displacement. The Cummins are 360ci, the 6.9 idi is 420ci, and the 7.3 idi is 444ci. That is quite the difference. I am not down playing the cummins, or any inline 6 motors for that matter, but just pointing out that an IDI is obviously a lot bigger engine physically.

You say that, but the idi sure makes a whole hell of a lot less power for being larger. Size doesn't mean everything. Take a guess why?
Stock 6.0 powerstroke is nearly double a idi.....

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Farmer Rock

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You say that, but the idi sure makes a whole hell of a lot less power for being larger. Size doesn't mean everything. Take a guess why?
Stock 6.0 powerstroke is nearly double a idi.....

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I am assuming you are being sarcastic, but I am going to throw some guesses of the wall anyway.turbo?intercooler?bigger IP?bigger injectors? electronically controlled injection system? the fact that it is a lot newer so it should be more powerful? I never said IDIs are the most powerful thing on earth, or that nothing is comparable, I just tried to say they are very underrated. And FWIW I would trade off the extra power for the reliability of an IDI. A guy wanted to trade his 05 6.0 on 35s for my old IH. I thought about it, and while I still think on paper I was stupid to pass it up, I am glad I didn't get involved with it. I am not looking to start an argument over the reliability of a 6.0, but I am not going to be the one spending $15k to get it to that point.











Rock
 

Daniel McCurdy

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Alright it seems that I'll end up doing a Cummins swap. They may be common I'm not interested in being different. After doing some research it seems the Cummins can make the power I want and still last 200k miles witch is good enough for me. A dt466 swap would definitely be the best but it's a lot of work to get to fit especially while also using a mechanical fan.
 

CBRF3

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Alright it seems that I'll end up doing a Cummins swap. They may be common I'm not interested in being different. After doing some research it seems the Cummins can make the power I want and still last 200k miles witch is good enough for me. A dt466 swap would definitely be the best but it's a lot of work to get to fit especially while also using a mechanical fan.

Sorry to hear you say that cummins are good motors but they just don't feel as smooth to me and don't seem to be as cheap to work on reliability is good but they have theyre issues also and well I would go a DT360 myself for the added HP and simplicity and smoothness. A cummins 5.9 12 valve for me I dont like the way they run and well the fact everyone and theyre brother are doing them. I like to be the odd ball that takes a super relaible engine that is under valued / appreciated and polish it to make it a even better design / platform to build around which the 6.9 / 7.3 is good for 200whp and around 550ftlb of torgue is very reliable and easy to get and smooth. I find 5.9's to be a bit to rough and either pulling so hard theyre trying to kill themselfs or nothing no smooth transition our 6.9/7.3 motors are smooth reliable and with the 8 cylinders in the V config counteract theyre vibrations / roughness and give a good smooth feel all around unlike the cummins 5.9. The 5.9 cummins is idle or feeling like its about to rip itself apart no happy middle is what am trying to say and when your trying to haul stuff that is sensitive to these transitions this would be bad. This could be produce / fragile materials or anything that is easily broken the 5.9 cummins is essentially balls to the wall or nothing.

I forgot to mention my other issue with the 5.9 cummins theyre so reliant on the turbo its not even funny and if you have any issues with the turbo or the turbo piping they will melt down almost immediately and till turbo comes on they got nothing and run like my built 7.3 with the HX50 no smooth transition just I am going I am going then lets kill this is not good on hitch assemblies and well trailers and such it really works the structure of trailers and will cause fatigues / cracks and such and well destroy trailers not to mention really ******* the chains / binders and such you use to lock your loads onto said trailer. which is dangerous and expensive and if are pulling a camper and such it causes fatigues in areas you wont see till things go south fast LOL leaving you in a serious situation often in middle of nowhere on a mountain somewhere.
 
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The_Josh_Bear

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and a hell of a oil cooler because the piston squirters are going to be doing alot of work to try to cool the pistons and at 400WHP i bet those pistons swell so tight in the bore essentially siezing the motor and it shatters rods from that issue our pistons for our motors swell alot because of the compression and well ricardo cup design aka IDI our pistons get hot fast and literally melt or swell and sieze in the bore shattering rings or making rods shoot out the side of motor 400whp is insane for a tow rig for our motors. The point is would take a ton of money and a ton of 1 off custom made parts to allow this I tackled alot of it including custom made steal top pistons with wrist pin raised 13 or 15 thousands cannot remember exactly and they came out well over $500 a piston and custom ring grooves which were also a upgrade. I used larger rings with more tension and more modern alloy designed more for durability / longevity / better sealing and custom performance power stroke rods modified to my use and power stroke crank and rod bearings along with alot more and I never got near the 400whp. I got 325WHP / 720ftlb of torgue and that was with a custom HX50 pushing 28psi PSI is not everything CFM / density is very important as gale banks says the turbo is out to lunch. I spent alot of time / money designing and building that motor still have it and it runs like a beast but I would not dare trust it for towing and that motors has well over $10k in it so he needs to rethink his goals LOL.

The HX50 can make more air density with less charge heating issues than a HX35/40 can meaning less PSI is needed the HX35/40 even with crazy intercooling had to run much higher boost pressures to deliver 1/2 of what it took for the HX50 again I maxxed out 28psi on the HX50 to get much better density / CFM than a HX40 at 35psi+ could deliver. the fact is got more density / CFM at 23psi with the HX50 than the HX40 did at 33psi. So yes the HX50 took a bit longer to spool but that was easily compensated by adding more fuel aka HEAT to light off the HX50 earlier yeah she was coal rolling for 10 seconds but it cleaned out quick and let me tell you when the HX50 hit you better hang on beacause either tires were spinning all of them dually 4x4 or it shattered the rear end / drive shaft. I played that game several times in fact my rear dif exploded on the dyno ( dana 80 4.10 gears ) when I hit the 325WHP / 720ftlb of torgue ( numbers were likely higher but the dif exploded and couldn't take it ) so I can say I played with these motors and found theyre limits and the limit in which I would spend money on them to get stupid results.

when the HX 50 came on it was violent I have to say it rivals nitrous shots on our IDI's yes I did that also and propane injection along with water **** injection I did alot of crazy stuff years ago there is a reason why I have several of these trucks / motors and a barn full of just parts from my sacrificed motors LOL I found many of theyre limits the hard way and expensive way. I sacrificed like 15+ of these engines just experimenting and finding theyre limits and I also then designed and fabricated ways around them with a few other people.
What are you running for IP on that engine? Crazy story man, I am enjoying your input.
 

CBRF3

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What are you running for IP on that engine? Crazy story man, I am enjoying your input.
modified marine 7.3 IDI injection pump I was told from the guy i bought 4 of them from they are essentially a hybrid DB2/DB4 injection pump I will look it up and get the model and such DB2831-5090 1819681c91 1993-1994 MARINE 260BHP
https://www.stanadyne.com/dealerportal/ssi/english/Parts Bulletin/159.pdf

and so you understand the 260BHP = 263.606HP so yeah that injection pump is putting out the juice. https://www.convert-measurement-units.com/conversion-calculator.php?type=power

I have 4 of these pumps and am down to only 1 left working and nobody can rebuild them sadly I have asked many companies and well they look them up and have gotten back to me with nope we cannot rebuild them theyre a specialty pump is what have been told.
 
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Laine D

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modified marine 7.3 IDI injection pump I was told from the guy i bought 4 of them from they are essentially a hybrid DB2/DB4 injection pump I will look it up and get the model and such DB2831-5090 1819681c91 1993-1994 MARINE 260BHP
https://www.stanadyne.com/dealerportal/ssi/english/Parts Bulletin/159.pdf

and so you understand the 260BHP = 263.606HP so yeah that injection pump is putting out the juice. https://www.convert-measurement-units.com/conversion-calculator.php?type=power

I have 4 of these pumps and am down to only 1 left working and nobody can rebuild them sadly I have asked many companies and well they look them up and have gotten back to me with nope we cannot rebuild them theyre a specialty pump is what have been told.
Damn that’s crazy..
 
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