Two questions that may be related

ConstantVigilance

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First, I had another thread going that seemed to burn out, so I'm posting these two questions independently of that one.


1) What could cause glow plugs that are disconnected from the harness to burn out.


2) If somebody rebuilds a 6.9 IDI, and upon setting the crankshaft timing gear they are off by one tooth in either direction, will it be obvious to me that they have done this. Or in other words, would I be able to tell right away that the crankshaft gear is one tooth off?

Thanks for your time

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Trayis

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1) What could cause glow plugs that are disconnected from the harness to burn out.


Well first off, were they new glow plugs that weren’t hooked up and then removed and found to be “burnt out” or were they older plugs that weren’t hooked up for a while?
 

ConstantVigilance

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1) What could cause glow plugs that are disconnected from the harness to burn out.


Well first off, were they new glow plugs that weren’t hooked up and then removed and found to be “burnt out” or were they older plugs that weren’t hooked up for a while?
New plugs installed and disconnected. Drove 10 minutes and found burnt up

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ConstantVigilance

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Should have kept the same thread. It "burnt out" because you didn't take the advice given.
I'll say it again, and keep saying it with every new post you make about it. Your timing is screwed. Likely overly advanced.

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I started a new post mostly because of question 2. I was also looking for new ideas on the plug issue. My timing is certainly off, but I burnt plugs even when the two lines (pump mark and housing mark)where lined up. I also burnt plugs when the timing was way retarded.

I've PM'ed a member that has the equipment to time my truck. I'll probably try again soon. He may not get PM notices.

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79jasper

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but I burnt plugs even when the two lines (pump mark and housing mark)where lined up. I also burnt plugs when the timing was way retarded.

The lines are just a reference point. They don't mean anything.
You won't know until you have a meter on it.

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jwalterus

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2) If somebody rebuilds a 6.9 IDI, and upon setting the crankshaft timing gear they are off by one tooth in either direction, will it be obvious to me that they have done this. Or in other words, would I be able to tell right away that the crankshaft gear is one tooth off?

Only if the timing cover is off and you can see the marks aren't lined up.

I am assuming A) they managed to get it running and B) they adjusted the fuel timing to match as well as possible.

Other than that, it would NOT run right.
 

ConstantVigilance

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Only if the timing cover is off and you can see the marks aren't lined up.

I am assuming A) they managed to get it running and B) they adjusted the fuel timing to match as well as possible.

Other than that, it would NOT run right.
It runs fine. I can definitely notice a positive difference in the performance when I advance it. Less smoke and more get up.

But I guess it sounds like I would notice something wrong if the crank is off a tooth... I'll rest a little easier.





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icanfixall

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Did you tell this forum what brand of plugs are burning out yet... Now about the gear timing. Looking at the injection pump if the gears are off by one tooth the pump will appear to lean towards either the passenger side of the drivers side when you try to line up the timing marks. BTW those marks are just that. a RANDOM mark that once really did mean something but.. That was for the original injection pump timed on the factory line. Now EVERY other injection pump will not be the same. these are not small block chevys where you can mix and match distributors from engine to engine and have close timing..
 

ConstantVigilance

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Did you tell this forum what brand of plugs are burning out yet... Now about the gear timing. Looking at the injection pump if the gears are off by one tooth the pump will appear to lean towards either the passenger side of the drivers side when you try to line up the timing marks. BTW those marks are just that. a RANDOM mark that once really did mean something but.. That was for the original injection pump timed on the factory line. Now EVERY other injection pump will not be the same. these are not small block chevys where you can mix and match distributors from engine to engine and have close timing..
Thank you for the response.

Yes, and that I've been using Motorcraft. But I burn these things out even when they're not hooked up to the harness.

I found a forum that someone was having the same issue, that is he was burning up plugs with no power going to the plugs, and he fixed it by adding a dual coil Autolite plug. I don't know why that would solve the problem, but I guess I could buy one of those Auto lights and see if I burn it out or not. I hear all sorts of bad stuff about those plugs.





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david85

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Just finished skimming over the other thread. Looks like this has been going on for a little while but I'll try and contribute if I can.

First off, yes: Too much timing advance can kill glow plugs. Individual experience seems to vary, which is why some are still skeptical of this possibility.

Overly advanced timing causes a more violent shockwave in the combustion chamber because the piston is still travelling up when the flame front hits the piston crown. This is not unlike a pre-ignition knock found in a gasser when the timing is too advanced, or fuel octane is too low. Timing needs to be at a certain point for a reason. This is true for gassers or diesels.

This abnormal shockwave causes more MECHANICAL stress on the glow plugs. Damage can occur without any electric current flowing through the glow plugs. I have personally lost glow plugs to this in the past (though not an entire set).

As one can imagine, this will also cause more mechanical damage on the other internal components of the engine. Rings, pistons, wrist pins, conrods and mains... they all take a hammering when timing is excessively advanced.

If the engine seems to run well where it is, don't be so easily fooled. Believe it or not, you can actually get an IDI to run with the IP turned 180 degrees off. Not well, but it will run. Getting it to seem about right with 1 tooth off is not impossible.


Ok, smoke analysis:

VERY subjective. However more advance will not necessarily mean less smoke. Too much advance and it will smoke plenty at idle. Same with too little. Mine had a slight gray haze at operating temperature when it was slightly too advanced. It's also entirely possible that a single bad injector could be dripping enough to completely overshadow any smoke effects from a timing error.


Engine power:

Also VERY subjective. My truck seems to "pull back" slightly when the high idle/cold advance shuts off while driving. That doesn't mean the truck should be running the higher advance all the time. There are other interactions happening in the fuel system that make it seems like you are losing power with less advance. Please don't get fooled into thinking more advance is always good. You must know where your timing is first before adding more or less.


Timing by ear:

Not generally recommended, but a shop with the right tools is not always available. The following assumes the cold advance/high idle are working correctly. Make the adjustment so that there is a noticeable (but not excessive) ignition knock when timing advance is on.
It should sound almost like a 7.3 powerstroke. When the timing advance turns off, the high pitched knock should go away. Also, the knock should not become a loud crackle when pulling hard under load and at higher RPMs. If you're still getting that powerstroke knock under load (with cold advance off), you are probably still a bit too advanced.

Again, I don't recommend timing by ear especially with an unknown engine history, but this should get you close enough until a proper timing can be arranged.
 

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