Thoughts on Performance upgrades/direction/Cummins?

[03wr250f]

I 100% agree with @Nero and @snicklas
Yes a 12v is a more desirable motor and easier to make power, and capable of making 1000hp.

But for what you are asking a idi will do every bit of your checklist and do it cheaper.
On the west coast a 300k 12v is 3500$ no trans no truck just motor.
When my motor blew I looked into it. I realized with some quick calculations that I would have been 8-10k into a 300k mile 12v swap. That Included motor mounts, driveline modifications, crossmember modification, exhaust, intake, intercooler and piping changes, a reseal of the engine, conversion clutch, adapter plate, fluids, and electric fans from a junkyard. Basically everything to get it running and driving.

And to further verify that number, a idier on the fb page blew his motor up and 12v swapped
He was 10or 11k into his swap, and that included a turbo upgrade as well.


I realized I could find used idi motors for between 3-800$ constantly, and that I could literally blow my motor up, take 2 weekends, one to pull the old, and one to transfer and drop the new motor in. And I could do that roughly 10 times Including gaskets and fluids and be equal to the cost of a cummins swap.


Put the turbo on. You will be between 190-200whp depending on engine and fuel system health. I have seen roughly 20 idis dyno with turbos and all seem to fall in there if mostly stock.

I dynod at 7 psi boost with a ats 093 and a intercooler I made 226/501 on a basically stock motor. Factory turbo ip, and stage 1 r&d injectors.


I made 276/642 at 20 psi on a turbo block, stage 1 drop in turbo, same ip maxed, same injectors, same hypermax intercooler, same 3" dp, and a electric lift pump at 9 psi, head studs, and valve springs.

The 250whp you are asking is not for away. Put the turbo on, gauges, build your own intercooler for 400$ and tadaaa

 

[IDIBRONCO]

we would all be talking about IDI swaps today

I still am. There's some other who are too or have already done it.

When I read a post like that I think of Johnny Cash's "One piece at a time" song.

When I told a guy that my Bronco was a 84,85,86,88,89,90, he told me that it must be a Johnny Cash Bronco. I had to agree.

I've also read that an inline six is a beautiful thing (gas or diesel).
I'm no engineer or mechanic but I think it's something to do with the balance of things?

I don't know about that part, but I do know that the inline engines typically last longer than a V or flat style engine. There's less side load on the cylinder walls and they don't wear out as quickly. I also know that, stock for stock, a N/A 7.3 will run circles around a 12v Cummins. Those things couldn't even get out of their own way (stock). The only 24V (stock) that I've driven felt just as gutless. I was talking to a friend a couple of days ago who is a Ford guy, but still a Cummins fanboy. He said that he loves his 24v Cummins and got rid of his 95 PSD because it didn't have enough power. The problem here is that the PSD was completely stock while the Cummins has a tuner on it. I tried to tell him that the PSD with even an economy tune is a COMPLETELY different engine. He just has a hard time remembering the differences between stock and tuned. I'm just waiting for the typical Dodge curse to set in and I'll happily tell him that the only thing I know about a Cummins is that I'll NEVER own a Dodge!

Oh, figured I would ask you guys who have turbocharged and cranked up the pumps on these IDIS... Will my clutch hold? I have a SMF Fort Wayne Clutch and Driveline unit I installed when I rebuilt the engine 2 years ago.

I'm pretty sure that the Luk clutches will hold up to 300 hp at the rear wheels. It's going to take more than a stock pump to get to that power level.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Put the turbo on. You will be between 190-200whp depending on engine and fuel system health. I have seen roughly 20 idis dyno with turbos and all seem to fall in there if mostly stock.

I dynod at 7 psi boost with a ats 093 and a intercooler I made 226/501 on a basically stock motor. Factory turbo ip, and stage 1 r&d injectors.


I made 276/642 at 20 psi on a turbo block, stage 1 drop in turbo, same ip maxed, same injectors, same hypermax intercooler, same 3" dp, and a electric lift pump at 9 psi, head studs, and valve springs.

The 250whp you are asking is not for away. Put the turbo on, gauges, build your own intercooler for 400$ and tadaaa

If we're being honest, 250-300 whp is all that most of us really need anyway. Could we use more from time to time? Sure but for most of us, most of the time, for most situations, 250-300 whp is only lacking in the bragging rights department.

 

[snicklas]

If we're being honest, 250-300 whp is all that most of us really need anyway. Could we use more from time to time? Sure but for most of us, most of the time, for most situations, 250-300 whp is only lacking in the bragging rights department.

I can agree with you on this. For the “old timers” here that remember Travis (argve) and the Enterprise and the Nanny Goat, both truck that had a ton of mods done…. He got in my stock 03 6.0 Excursion (325hp/560tq) factory, and he made the comment that in the factory trim (my truck is 100% stock, no tuner, no mods) that he saw no reason to turn it up. It did well just the way it is. Even now, he has a 14 (exr 16, can’t remember) 6.7 PSD…… and it is stock…… I think it is 400/800 factory.

 

[drewr13NJ]

I can agree with you on this. For the “old timers” here that remember Travis (argve) and the Enterprise and the Nanny Goat, both truck that had a ton of mods done…. He got in my stock 03 6.0 Excursion (325hp/560tq) factory, and he made the comment that in the factory trim (my truck is 100% stock, no tuner, no mods) that he saw no reason to turn it up. It did well just the way it is. Even now, he has a 14 (exr 16, can’t remember) 6.7 PSD…… and it is stock…… I think it is 400/800 factory.

Snicklas: You hit the nail on the head. 99% of the people out there don't need a 3/4- or 1-ton truck with 500hp and 1000ft-lb torque (approx. specs for new trucks). I wish they would de-tune them and give better fuel mileage. My 6.2 gas has all kinds of power at 385hp, 430lb-ft tq. Then again, it is all relative. I had two Internationals like the one pictured in my profile picture. They had about 180hp (Small V V8's), similar power to a stock IDI. It pulled an overloaded dump trailer just fine.

 

[Black dawg]

I am a huge fan of the 6.9 and 7.3 IDI, have owned them and not been without since the late 90s. Before that, had them in the family starting in the late 80s.
I agree that with even just a turbo, they have pretty good power, nothing crazy just good towing power......if you can keep it cool.


If the swap wasnt about money, it is stupid easy to turn up any 12 valve to beyond what a 7.3 idi will do without getting modded pumps and injectors. I really cant think of anything a 6.9/7.3 does better (well things like compression braking, or much less smoke and smell cold) than a 5.9 12v.
That being said, I had a 12v with most of the stuff to use it in my truck rounded up, just never did it. I like the 6.9/7.3 idi

 

[03wr250f]

@Black dawg my upgraded cooling fan makes it possible to keep these idis cool even with double or more than stock power

 

[chillman88]

Oh, figured I would ask you guys who have turbocharged and cranked up the pumps on these IDIS... Will my clutch hold? I have a SMF Fort Wayne Clutch and Driveline unit I installed when I rebuilt the engine 2 years ago.

I agree that the little things nickel and dime ya on conversions.

From everything I've read a stock turbo and turned up IP you should be ok. It's not until you go bigger pump and larger turbo that you start having issues. It also seems to make a difference if you're towing heavy or not. Some people are fine with upgraded pumps and turbos on that clutch while others who tow heavy have holding issues.

 

[franklin2]

From everything I've read a stock turbo and turned up IP you should be ok. It's not until you go bigger pump and larger turbo that you start having issues. It also seems to make a difference if you're towing heavy or not. Some people are fine with upgraded pumps and turbos on that clutch while others who tow heavy have holding issues.

How many people have had transmission or driveline problems with a turned up idi? Ford DID put a safety clutch in the original Dual Mass Flywheel setups, and I have seen people say they can slip on a turned up truck. But of course no one hardly uses the stock clutch anymore.

I haven't seen many threads on driveline breakage, so possibly the original clutch was another Ford over reaction to possible warranty claims.

 

[Black dawg]

@Black dawg my upgraded cooling fan makes it possible to keep these idis cool even with double or more than stock power

One of these days I will have to try one, more airflow cant hurt. But I honestly dont feel that it is an airflow issue with these, and rather too little coolant flow. I have checked all over these engines and radiator while loaded heavy and running hot with a temp gun, and (I wish I remembered the numbers) and the temp difference top tank to bottom tank was huge. Also ran one summer with no t stat and bypass very restricted, and if I remember correctly I couldnt get temps over 220 loaded heavy in hot weather. Previous temps would have been 250 and climbing.......I have seen 270.

 

[u2slow]

The nature of IDI requires a lot of cooling capacity. Gm went to dual thermostats in the late 90's as an attempt to improve cooling.

The propensity for cracked pre-cups and heads is one of the big reasons I don't play with idi's anymore. (Chevy or ford)

 

[Laine D]

Which one? A CR engine?

Either a 6.7 or a 24 valve. Electronics intrigue me. I like the tuning capabilities. Plus I want a single cab idi so I can have both lol

 

[franklin2]

Either a 6.7 or a 24 valve. Electronics intrigue me. I like the tuning capabilities. Plus I want a single cab idi so I can have both lol

You can have all the DEF fluid hassle and the expense when it breaks. That is what I like about the idi, it is the newest truck you can get without emissions on it. If you like electronics, I think the old powerstroke had it without emissions also for a time.

 

[Laine D]

You can have all the DEF fluid hassle and the expense when it breaks. That is what I like about the idi, it is the newest truck you can get without emissions on it. If you like electronics, I think the old powerstroke had it without emissions also for a time.

I’m not saying I’m buying a new one lol.

 

[Nero]

Nah buy a used one and delete it.

Little word of advice. Don't buy a dodge one. Buy an industrial version. Box truck... Rv... Small semi... Trust me, much better engine design. The 6.7 chrysler is NOT the same as a 6.7 used in medium duty semis.