Super Moose, or RD4-180?

[IDIoit]

for the ranchero. I want to go huge on the fuel for this thing.
Russ is gonna build me a set of injectors.
will be inter cooled.. later, but I think ive got enough air to feed the fuel.
price is about 500$ difference, so im trying to negotiate, and see what I can do for the best price.

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[pafixitman]

I'm local to Mel and have known him for 14+ years....

As far as which is better, I ain't got no fricken idea...

 

[no mufflers]

are they both the same size? I take it Mel's is the higher dollar one? I would get one from Mel just since I have known him for a while.

I know what the Facebook page would say...... I guess that's why I don't ask many questions there...

 

[jdphish]

Dual turbos look fantastic!

 

[IDIoit]

I do have a bull moose, and its done its job.
Mel's super moose is 500 bucks cheaper. and an advertised 25 cc more of fuel.
the larger injection lines are going to have to be custom made, if I do them.
and that's why I asked here, everyone on FB is biased lol

 

[Black dawg]

Might need both! Will be interesting to see how that acts when it spools.

 

[Hydro-idi]

Go with Mel's. Save the extra $500 for when you blow those heads off the block

 

[FordGuy100]

That's peak flow vs 2800rpm flow. The RD180 has a higher peak flow than 180cc's.

Buy them both and dyno.

 

[no mufflers]

I guess I was wrong. everyone always says R&D was lower on cost. if Mel's is cheaper and puts out more fuel I would do that.

 

[Macrobb]

R&Ds 180 will definitely produce more fuel. I'm more than a little concerned about Mel's "205CC" number - I still haven't seen any dyno results.
Pretty sure that it will be less(at 2800 RPM), simply because Justin's using a 4-plunger head off a DB4 and Mel isn't.

I know Justin's gotten 450 at the wheels with dyno charts to prove it, and I haven't seen anyone else make that claim. That's... Lots of HP.

I also have been very impressed with my little RD2-110 - it may be oversized for the application(with a stock turbo), but it produces a good bump in HP over a stock IP, while maintaining good drivability. Again, this isn't a 'stock' IP turned up, this is an IP that's been seriously modified for the application(in this case, extra fill ports EDM'd into the rotor)


Also, any pump that you risk destroying the IP if you lose fuel pressure? Sounds like something's being pushed right to the limit there...
That, combined with the lack of dyno testing, makes me skeptical.

I mean... I hate to say it, but if you are going to be spending a bunch of money designing and testing a pump(and selling them for $1400), how hard is it to install one on a truck and take it to the local dyno shop, or dyno days and see what it does?

 

[shawn deere]

Dont you need like 100psi fuel pressure at the ip for mels pump? I dont know about r and d's ip tho. But if a guy had to buy a super wookie lift pump itd cut into the $500 difference

Edit 60psi

 

[FordGuy100]

Yeah but to be fair you should run the RD pump at a higher then factory amount of lift pump pressure.

 

[Dieselcrawler]

there are three super moose pumps out there. not sure where they are now.

the reason conestoga doesnt do dyno sheets and stuff like that is he is not a performance shop. he is a pump shop that rebuild pretty much any injection pump, injector and turbo out there. he doesnt have the time or cash just to play with them. r&d on the other had is a specialty performance shop based off of one engine platform. he has the toys to play with.

hell mel has sent me pumps to test on my own engines cause he trusts my skills and diagnosis. its not like he has a bunch of engines laying around that he can play with. it is a very clean small shop. he has 2 bays(tight bays at that) to do installs and such.

one reason i will always go to mel. when i call, email, text, or even drive 2 hrs and stop in, he will always give me the answers and not leave me hanging with no replies.

 

[Thewespaul]

Well you already have one bull moose... and you're looking at possibly building custom lines anyways... just get yerself a second bull moose and run dual pumps! That way all your air fabrication will match you fuel fabrication... just sayin

 

[Macrobb]

there are three super moose pumps out there. not sure where they are now.

the reason conestoga doesnt do dyno sheets and stuff like that is he is not a performance shop. he is a pump shop that rebuild pretty much any injection pump, injector and turbo out there. he doesnt have the time or cash just to play with them. r&d on the other had is a specialty performance shop based off of one engine platform. he has the toys to play with.

If this was a stock pump, a rebuild off of something else... sure. You are building it to the spec, you expect it to do what it's designed for, and you only have to test it per the spec(flow, timing etc).

If you are making a custom designed pump, you have to at least test it in the real world to make sure it works as designed/advertised.

OK, perhaps he can't do it himself. So someone else can beta test for him. Dyno runs are only $100-ish; Is it too much to ask to have at least one known setup with a known torque/HP curve known after three pumps, if you are selling a product? Especially one costing $1400?
If it clearly said "this is a beta test product", OK, that would be one thing - But as far as I can tell, these pumps are sold as a tested, working design.

In R&Ds case, yeah, he's doing the testing himself(some of it). He's also got others doing it for him, and getting feedback.
And there are dyno runs out there, data that we can use to independantly verify the claims.

Also, I might add - with R&Ds pump, yes, you want higher than stock PSI to supply it... But it won't hurt it to be driven with less. It just won't put out as much fuel.
And, he's rating the flow at 2800 RPM/peak HP, not (unknown RPM) - especially critical as the flow drops off on *any* rotary pump as you increase RPM.
So you could have a pump making 200 at idle, but only 100 at 2800... It won't make as much HP as one that makes 120 at 2800.

That's all I'm saying.
If I can get some solid dyno numbers(dyno sheet pictures, verifiable) out of someone for one of these pumps... I'd be discussing the merits of both. But I can't recommend something without proof. And "It goes really fast" isn't proof.