Super Moose, or RD4-180?

Hydro-idi

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^^^ Good point. It really wouldnt be that difficult to have a test vehicle make some dyno runs to see what they actually make. Of course, there's lots of variables such as engine health & various turbo designs that could potentially change results.
 

Thewespaul

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But I can't recommend something without proof. And "It goes really fast" isn't proof.

I don't want this to turn into an internet squabble and pick sides but not many people know about this but Mel sponsored a local competition puller to test his injection pumps including the super moose. This is where one of the three ended up. I don't know much more about the puller but I know he has ran for many seasons working with Mel and his shop.
Hard to say that pump isn't tested, it's just tough to get dyno results for the high tier pumps when so few people build an idi that can take that much fuel. If you want to see it tested then be my guest and drop the big bucks on a full build and test it yourself
 

Thewespaul

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How can dual pumps Be ran? I saw it mentioned before but how would that work?

It hasn't been done yet but probably by adding a second pump gear to run the second pump. The struggle would be making a custom gear cover for both of the gears, making room to mount the second IP, making custom lines for the second IP and finding a way to match both the pumps timing. Not an easy job but not impossible
 

Macrobb

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screw all that dual pump noise, would be easier to do a inline pump
Yup.

Expensive as anything, but that's what the fabled Hypermax race IDI from /way/ back in the day used.

The only problem, of course, is you have to seriously modify the intake manifold to get enough clearance for it.

I recall Justin@R&D talking about designing a V-P-pump - taking what is effectively a 4-cylinder inline P-pump and machining a custom housing for it that has two inline banks at a 90-degree angle running on a single 4-cylinder cam - Effectively creating a V-8 pump to match the engine!
Unfortunately, I haven't heard anything about that in a couple of years now, since the last time I saw him in person.
 

FordGuy100

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There is a 6.2 or 6.5 GM IDI running in a pulling tractor in Europe that has two pumps. They are mounted side by side and are driven by a very large belt (think blower size). It's on YouTube. Maybe I'll CAD one up one day.
 

IDIoit

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Yup.

Expensive as anything, but that's what the fabled Hypermax race IDI from /way/ back in the day used.

The only problem, of course, is you have to seriously modify the intake manifold to get enough clearance for it.

I recall Justin@R&D talking about designing a V-P-pump - taking what is effectively a 4-cylinder inline P-pump and machining a custom housing for it that has two inline banks at a 90-degree angle running on a single 4-cylinder cam - Effectively creating a V-8 pump to match the engine!
Unfortunately, I haven't heard anything about that in a couple of years now, since the last time I saw him in person.

I have plans on making a header style intake.... gonna be freaking wild...
 

Dieselcrawler

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If this was a stock pump, a rebuild off of something else... sure. You are building it to the spec, you expect it to do what it's designed for, and you only have to test it per the spec(flow, timing etc).

If you are making a custom designed pump, you have to at least test it in the real world to make sure it works as designed/advertised.

OK, perhaps he can't do it himself. So someone else can beta test for him. Dyno runs are only $100-ish; Is it too much to ask to have at least one known setup with a known torque/HP curve known after three pumps, if you are selling a product? Especially one costing $1400?
If it clearly said "this is a beta test product", OK, that would be one thing - But as far as I can tell, these pumps are sold as a tested, working design.

In R&Ds case, yeah, he's doing the testing himself(some of it). He's also got others doing it for him, and getting feedback.
And there are dyno runs out there, data that we can use to independantly verify the claims.

Also, I might add - with R&Ds pump, yes, you want higher than stock PSI to supply it... But it won't hurt it to be driven with less. It just won't put out as much fuel.
And, he's rating the flow at 2800 RPM/peak HP, not (unknown RPM) - especially critical as the flow drops off on *any* rotary pump as you increase RPM.
So you could have a pump making 200 at idle, but only 100 at 2800... It won't make as much HP as one that makes 120 at 2800.

That's all I'm saying.
If I can get some solid dyno numbers(dyno sheet pictures, verifiable) out of someone for one of these pumps... I'd be discussing the merits of both. But I can't recommend something without proof. And "It goes really fast" isn't proof.
so justin has his hand up your ass too I see. Such a good puppet.
 

Thewespaul

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IBTL x2

Seriously though op you cant go wrong with either brand, I run products from both companies and neither is a "bad" product. Obviously there is a predisposition against Justin because of his behavior in the past on this forum but you would probably get your pump quicker from R&D just because of how busy Mel is right now, dunno if time is an issue with this project. But personally I would like to see a Super Moose ran just because I will probably be purchasing one later next year. You could always run that and see what you can squeeze out of a Db4 pump and in the meantime fabricate an inline pump system, I know youre up to the challenge!
 
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IDIoit

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im not up to the inline pump challenge until all of my vehicles are running.
 

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