Since we are on the subject of electric fans...

[87crewdually]

Don't doubt your findings one bit but I do have to ask, What is the condition of your radiator? Are the tubes in the top of the radiator calcified (white crap growing) restricting coolant flow?

 

[RLDSL]

Well, I thought I would bring this old thread back for a update. I believe it was in one of the other fan/cooling threads I mentioned I converted to two 16" electric fans. These were not Taurus or any other factory fan, they were new off the shelf 16" fans from the local Advance store, #226116, 1,400 cfm each. I used both side by side.

I can now tell you for sure, they are not enough to cool the truck. But it took all summer to figure it out. Hauling loads around town is no problem, no matter what the size load, A/C on too. When I got into trouble was going camping, fully loaded, at interstate speeds going up some long hills. This is where you have it floored for long periods of time, doing 45mph or less in 4th gear or less. It gets hotter and hotter.

I also have verification on the factory gauge system. I left the stock gauge in place, but added a mech temp gauge in the driver's side head, eliminating the overtemp switch. I remember when it was all stock, my temp gauge would go up to about the "A" in "NORMAL", and then would peg over to hot and the engine light would come on. Watching it the other day with the mech gauge, when the factory gauge reaches the "A", the new mech gauge is reading approx 240F. When the mech gauge started approaching 250f, I pulled over and let it cool off for about 15 min.

Some other things I have learned that you may already know, but I can confirm;

-You will need a bigger alternator if you run fans larger than these. These fans were rated at approx 20 amps each. So this took 40 amps from the stock alternator. I never had a problem with this, but I could tell it was at the limit when the fans were on, the A/C was on with the blower on high, and the headlights were on. If you run the required higher cfm fans, they are definitely going to pull more amps(can't get something for nothing right?) and the stock alt is definitely not going to handle the load properly.

-Remember to tie the A/C system into the new electric fan setup. I didn't, and had the high pressure relief valve pop-off on me on the A/C compressor. This means you need to run relays to power the fans. You also need to install a blocker diode in this A/C tie in, or when the thermostat kicks on to run the fans it will kick on the A/C compressor.

What I did today was re-install the factory clutch fan and shroud, and used some small angle iron cut, drilled, and welded to bolt the fan blades to the waterpump pulley. This locked the fan together, and after a test drive, I didn't hear or see anything I didn't like. I could only hear the fan roar a little bit if I got over 2000 rpm. With the overdrive now, I rarely go over 2000 rpm, and I am thinking if I am pulling hard in a lower gear, I should be at or over 2000 rpm and that fan roar hopefully will be a good thing. I will have to wait and see how this works, but I hope it does, since this is the last resort for my heavy hauling/cooling problem.

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I just put a 16" pusher on for an extra booster fan along with my 10inch job ( not sure how you got two 16" fans on there. I had an extra 16incher, but couldn't figure out a way to mount the thing but anyway, I sure as heck couldn't see the things being primary cooling and my 16" fan moves 2100 cfm i believe, but i wouldn't trust two of the things to move enough air ( heck , as it was, the factory fan was needing a little help on real long pulls at low speed with a real heavy load crossing the desert in August, hence the electric pusher fans

 

[oldmisterbill]

I just recently picked up a Buick Roadmaster with the 260HP version of the corvet LT1 350. It is cooled with electric fans no belt driven fan at all. I did notice once when idling with the grandkids with me while their mom was in the hospital it did run hot but it was 102* outside. I wonder how those fans would work in our trucks.I haven't found the cfm on these or AMP draw.The car is fully loaded,all the toys for an old guys comfort.Does a heck of a job on the open road so I imagine it needs a lot of cooling.
An interesting note -I read that on the LT1 it has a 10 to 1 compression ratio .To help make this possible and to limit preignition the reversed the water flow.The heads get the cool water first (to lower the head temp) then goes to the block and back to the radiator. Interesting concept when one would want to rais boost -I wonder if this could be a help.I just had this thought so its new in a defunct brain. We run regular gas with no problem.

 

[seawalkersee]

Okay, going back to the original post.

Those ARE Taurus fans. The small tabs on the fans fit into a small mount that attaches to a fiberglass shroud. I also pulled out the factory sender that turns on the fans. Hooking it up to one of the heads as the ground for the relay that will turn on the fans. It is going to be awesome...

SWS

 

[oldmisterbill]

Actually I was looking for comments on how those might work in an IDI.

 

[franklin2]

Don't doubt your findings one bit but I do have to ask, What is the condition of your radiator? Are the tubes in the top of the radiator calcified (white crap growing) restricting coolant flow?

Brand new aluminum radiator, good to go there.

( not sure how you got two 16" fans on there. I had an extra 16incher, but couldn't figure out a way to mount the thing

I used two long pieces of 1/4x2 aluminum. I bolted them across the top and bottom using the original fan shroud holes in the radiator. Then bolted the fans to the aluminum. This mounted the fans toward the top of the radiator, which I thought would be good since that is where the hot water is entering, and it closed off the airflow between the top tank and the core nicely, sort of like a shroud would.

I just wanted to write in and record what would not work from actual experience.

 

[seawalkersee]

See, I am confused because those are bigger than the clutch fan that comes with the IDI. Did you have a shround on your fans?

SWS

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

>>> WHY ALL THE HEAT ??? <<<

I re-read this whole thread and one thing kept jumping out at me :

I have regularly hauled as heavy, and usually a whole lot heavier, than most of what I am reading about.

My old 6.9 never had anything different about the coolant system than what Ford put on there in 1985.

At over half-a-million miles, it still has the original water-pump.

Due to an insistent head-gasket seep during it's first year or so, I religiously dumped in a couple semi-sized bottles of pelleted Bars Leaks at least once every year; the leak went away and a head-bolt has never been out, not even a valve-cover has ever been off.


I have had this truck and big, really big by most of what I read, gooseneck livestock trailers in 41 of our states, in all kinds of murderous heat, hammer down and smoke rolling.


During all this heavy hauling, the coolant system and temperature gauge were probably the least of my worries; I never saw the needle above the center of NORMAL, nor much above 195*, while the IDI was in the truck.


With the Cummins change-over, I ran the original old radiator for a few months and then installed a brand-new exact factory replacement Ready Rad from Advance.

There was nothing wrong with the old one except that it was getting old enough that I was always expecting eminent failure simply due to it's age.


With the Cummins, the mechanical gauge eventually climbs to 180* ( right on the N of NORMAL ), and it stays there, regardless of load, up hill and down.


I run a pinned clutch in summer and an un-pinned one in winter and not even that shows me any difference in engine cooling; the reason for the pinned clutch is dramatically better A/C performance.


Compared to the wimpy radiators in other small diesel trucks, Ford diesels have by far the largest radiators.



I just can't understand all the problems a lot of you guys are having in keeping your cool ; I could almost be blamed for being neglectful in my maintenance of the coolant system and I never ever was worried that I was even close to an engine overheat situation; if anyone's engine was gonna heat up, it should have been mine.




I have no doubt in my mind that a pair of the Taurus fans will keep my engine cool under all circumstances; my desire to try them is in a quest for better low-speed/sitting-still A/C performance.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

I just recently picked up a Buick Roadmaster with the 260HP version of the corvet LT1 350. It is cooled with electric fans no belt driven fan at all.

What year-model is this Roadmaster ??

What years had this fan set-up ??

Thanks.

 

[franklin2]

See, I am confused because those are bigger than the clutch fan that comes with the IDI. Did you have a shround on your fans?

Looking at the fans, I believe it's all in the blade design. These fans were large, but their current draw and cfm were not that high. I am not sure where people get the cfm numbers that they throw around, and I doubt anyone really knows how much cfm the factory fan has at a certain rpm, but 2800 cfm is not enough.

I am now going to rely on the factory engineering to keep the engine cool with the locked fan and factory shroud. The only non-oem piece will be the radiator, so we will see how it all works out. It may take another year for a really good test. Like I said, it's a build-up of heat, running the engine very hard at high rpms, pulling long hills up a mountain on the interstate.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

I believe some of you guys that are having cooling issues even with good cooling equipment should look into pyrometer-probe placement.

ALL engine heat comes directly from combustion-chamber temperatures.

If you crank up the fuel, you are cranking up the heat in like proportions.

Couple that with the wimpy-sized exhaust systems that these trucks came with, and poor air-intake, and you set the recipe for dramatic EGT increases.

The probe MUST be directly in the exhaust manifold to even get a close reading of what is going on.

Simply brazing one in an exhaust pipe is not gonna cut it.

It might surprise some of you that are having cooling issues to know just how close to melt-down you may be getting.



I am not saying this applies to everyone's situation, just that it is a real genuine factor in what is going on in the coolant system.

 

[franklin2]

I believe some of you guys that are having cooling issues even with good cooling equipment should look into pyrometer-probe placement.

ALL engine heat comes directly from combustion-chamber temperatures.

If you crank up the fuel, you are cranking up the heat in like proportions.

Couple that with the wimpy-sized exhaust systems that these trucks came with, and poor air-intake, and you set the recipe for dramatic EGT increases.

The probe MUST be directly in the exhaust manifold to even get a close reading of what is going on.

Simply brazing one in an exhaust pipe is not gonna cut it.

It might surprise some of you that are having cooling issues to know just how close to melt-down you may be getting.



I am not saying this applies to everyone's situation, just that it is a real genuine factor in what is going on in the coolant system.

Just so you know, I have never touched the fuel screw on my pump, and I know the guy I bought it from never did. Wide open, there is not even a hint of smoke, so I am pretty sure the fuel setting must be stock. Someone split the y-pipe on my truck, and ran dual exhaust. It has two 2 1/4" pipes going into two 2 1/4 turbo mufflers, and the outlets come out the pass side in front of the rear tire. I am also still NA.

I am thinking if I would have just bought a new clutch for the fan, I might have been ok, but I keep reading about a $140 clutch that doesn't last very long, so I wanted to try something else.

When I was thinking of my options, I also wanted to try a flex fan, but I can't find where anyone makes a flex fan big enough.

The other day when I was looking at the original fan, I thought it would be nice to make a hub to bolt the fan to the pulley, and eliminate the heavy clutch and that aggravating left-hand thread on hub, but it was too easy just to use some homemade brackets to tie the fan to the pulley bolts.

 

[Agnem]

Well, I thought I would bring this old thread back for a update. I believe it was in one of the other fan/cooling threads I mentioned I converted to two 16" electric fans. These were not Taurus or any other factory fan, they were new off the shelf 16" fans from the local Advance store, #226116, 1,400 cfm each. I used both side by side.

I can now tell you for sure, they are not enough to cool the truck. But it took all summer to figure it out. Hauling loads around town is no problem, no matter what the size load, A/C on too. When I got into trouble was going camping, fully loaded, at interstate speeds going up some long hills. This is where you have it floored for long periods of time, doing 45mph or less in 4th gear or less. It gets hotter and hotter.

I also have verification on the factory gauge system. I left the stock gauge in place, but added a mech temp gauge in the driver's side head, eliminating the overtemp switch. I remember when it was all stock, my temp gauge would go up to about the "A" in "NORMAL", and then would peg over to hot and the engine light would come on. Watching it the other day with the mech gauge, when the factory gauge reaches the "A", the new mech gauge is reading approx 240F. When the mech gauge started approaching 250f, I pulled over and let it cool off for about 15 min.

Some other things I have learned that you may already know, but I can confirm;

-You will need a bigger alternator if you run fans larger than these. These fans were rated at approx 20 amps each. So this took 40 amps from the stock alternator. I never had a problem with this, but I could tell it was at the limit when the fans were on, the A/C was on with the blower on high, and the headlights were on. If you run the required higher cfm fans, they are definitely going to pull more amps(can't get something for nothing right?) and the stock alt is definitely not going to handle the load properly.

-Remember to tie the A/C system into the new electric fan setup. I didn't, and had the high pressure relief valve pop-off on me on the A/C compressor. This means you need to run relays to power the fans. You also need to install a blocker diode in this A/C tie in, or when the thermostat kicks on to run the fans it will kick on the A/C compressor.

What I did today was re-install the factory clutch fan and shroud, and used some small angle iron cut, drilled, and welded to bolt the fan blades to the waterpump pulley. This locked the fan together, and after a test drive, I didn't hear or see anything I didn't like. I could only hear the fan roar a little bit if I got over 2000 rpm. With the overdrive now, I rarely go over 2000 rpm, and I am thinking if I am pulling hard in a lower gear, I should be at or over 2000 rpm and that fan roar hopefully will be a good thing. I will have to wait and see how this works, but I hope it does, since this is the last resort for my heavy hauling/cooling problem.

Did you happen to take any pics of your install? And lacking a signiture, I'm going to guess that you have a 7.3 turbo. My opionions on the shortcommings of the 7.3 cooling system modification done by IH to prevent head gasket leaks has already been well documented elsewhere. it is my firm belief that the 7.3 has effectively lost 33% of the cooling capacity compared to a 6.9. As Damon has already pointed out, 6.9's rarely have cooling system problems, while 7.3's have cooling problems even with the factory fan. Unless you have a 6.9, I don't think your experiment was a total failure, but rather a confirmation that without modifications to the factory cooling system (you pinned your fan) a 7.3 is likely to overheat under extreme conditions even in factory trim.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

My opionions on the shortcommings of the 7.3 cooling system modification done by IH to prevent head gasket leaks has already been well documented elsewhere. it is my firm belief that the 7.3 has effectively lost 33% of the cooling capacity compared to a 6.9.

Thanks for pointing out the reduced cooling performance of the 7.3s; as I never have owned a 7.3, I tend to forget about the differences.


That cooling difference may very well be why that old looney guy in South Mississippi that could really make a 6.9 scream refused to work his magic on 7.3s.

 

[flareside_thun]

To be honest, I just kinda skimmed this thread. I have an E-fan conversion on Elvira that came from a Merc Cougar. These fans are rated at 3000CFM on HIGH, they were available in the Cougars, early Taurus', and T-birds. It bout killed my stock 90 amp alt that was one there so I had to swap that out... These fans are also rated at a 30 amp draw. Just thought my research and experience might be helpful in your decision. I'll be paying attention as I'm curious as to an E-fan conversion on an IDI.