Scattered the clutch

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

Well I now have a new feat under my belt. Took a little camping trip over the holiday and shoulda stayed home.
Broke the trailer tongue jack first day there and thought that was the last of the issues. WRONG!
Headed back yesterday and while merging onto the highway I went over a bridge that wasn't in the greatest of repair and as I come off the other side doing about 55 mph, I heard a loud BANG and a whole bunch of metal on metal grinding. CRAP no forward gears and the clutch pedal went limp.

I got Goldie off the highway as far as I could and surveyed the damage.
Best seen at this point is the clutch and pressure plate decieded it was done cause there was an awful lot of metal in the bottom of the inspection cover.
Well with the aid of the Michigan State police and my brother in law and my local wrecker service, I got the trailer and truck home at a measly $125.00 for the truck towed home and $30 to my BIL for gas.
At least Goldie got to ride on a new International rollback. Heck she filled the whole deck of that thing and not a spare inch between the rails with the duallies.

So once I get the 3 trucks out of my yard(Don't say it Darrin, yes 10 vehicles in the yard I know ) that need engine swaps and teardowns, I can get into Golide a little deeper since not only do I need to fix a leaky rear main, now I have to fix the clutch.

The dilema.......
Do I now go to a 12" SMF setup or stay factory 11 DMF?

 

[oregon-mike]

Seems to be a recurring them with these oldies and road trips

Bummer to hear about the mishap(s), but, seeing as how you'll have the tranny out for the clutch swap it ought to be just a wee bit easier to get to that rear main

I think Cheaper has the full parts list for the SMF conversion...saw it here I think. Mucho cheaper than the DMF or the LUK conversion if I recall.

Good luck!

Mike

 

[FordGuy100]

Dang man, that suxs. If you had the money I would say do the SMF.

 

[towcat]

ron-
I was going to post later on my findings, but I talk about it a little now. About five years ago Gene Luo(he lurks here) bought a f250 4x4 and it already had the SMF setup with the ZF5. It was residing in his truck for the last five years until his nephew was racing around in it and blew third gear. Going into the trans I knew we were going to need a replacement third but the teeth on the input shaft and the countershaft gear was worn paper thin. There was no noise or indication aheaad of time outside if the "normal" rollover noise. What we don't know is how long the trans had the SMF kit in it and is this going to be a reccuring problem. I've used DMF's in all my trucks and often I have found is that IP's are the root cause of rattling DMF's. Why? Uneven feul delivery timing and volume of feul delivered to each cylinder. This is not just my own suspicion but also at the factory level as well in both the Ford and GM camps. The only lab rat I know at the moment is The Warden on the SMF and ZF5 conversion, his ZF was rebuilt and the SMF was installed at the same time. Unfortunately it's prolly going to take longer for his setup to test out since he doesn't drive the truck hardly. I will post some fuzzy pics of the used and new input shaft gears this evening, but the difference is pretty obvious.
just food for thought.

 

[Agnem]

Ron, now is the time to redeem yourself and do the lucky mod correctly.

Dang man, sorry to hear of your bad luck. I spent money over the weekend too. Did 57 in a 45, and got called on it.

 

[icanfixall]

Yes.. These crew cabs do fill the rollbacks up. I found this out last November when I lost the second freeze plug on my new rebuild motor. Damn its beena long time since I have driven my truck....

 

[geonc]

Damn Ron

Is the case intact? Remember my little incident

Calvin brings a VERY important fact to the table

Thinking about it timing pulse spikes are high up in the frequency range........so high in fact we cannot feel them as "something is wrong here" or seat of pants diagnosis.

I'm sure we have all driven a {forgive me} g*s engine with a dead plug and felt that shudder........now move that spike up in frequency and out of our feel range over a hundered thousand miles or so..................

Dang Cal....ya made my grey matter hurt ;p remembering back to failure analysis school

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

Yeah Calvin,the rollover and the excessive wear are food for thought. Especially the amount of garbage fuel I've run this summer.
DMF was begining some tell tale signs of fuel system issues.

Thanks Mel for rubbing the nose in the *** puddle.

Geo I'm hoping I don't have a compromised housing but so far from what I can see it's still in one piece.

I haven't even gotten the exhaust off yet as I'm really looking forward to removing a 1 piece crossover/up pipe combo.(Don't ask)
Still gots nightmares from Darrins last encounter.


For the time being, I've resureected the Beef from lawn ornament status to get me back into some functioning transportation. Well sort of cause she's got her issues too. Bad brake lines and an unfounded battery drain.

Dangit can't win, plus I've got 3 trucks sitting in my yard needing motor swaps and some other misc maintenance that has to take precedence over my breakdowns. Since they're paying customers.

Oh well decisions decisions.

More later.

 

[The Warden]

The only lab rat I know at the moment is The Warden on the SMF and ZF5 conversion, his ZF was rebuilt and the SMF was installed at the same time. Unfortunately it's prolly going to take longer for his setup to test out since he doesn't drive the truck hardly.

FWIW, I think EZ has a SMF on his truck as well...don't know if anyone else does.

Towcat's right, though; I've put MAYBE 10K miles on my truck since the tranny swap...I haven't noticed anything even remotely resembling an issue from my tranny or clutch, but it's really too early to tell. But, the issue he described with Gene's truck is actually the only issue I've ever heard that could be attributed to the SMF. OTOH, I'm by no means an expert on the matter...

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

Interesting SMF thoughts. I purchased a spare used DMF and am pretty convinced that I will do the Lucky conversion when my current clutch gives up the ghost. Am I correct in assuming that none of the described transmission wear has been reported with the Lucky Larue DMF "conversion"?

R. J.

 

[towcat]

Interesting SMF thoughts. I purchased a spare used DMF and am pretty convinced that I will do the Lucky conversion when my current clutch gives up the ghost. Am I correct in assuming that none of the described transmission wear has been reported with the Lucky Larue DMF "conversion"?

R. J.

the biggest problem with the lucky conversion is the bolts that freeze up the two rotating parts have a tendancy to shear. Also, there is no additional dampener springs to attempt to isolate the harmonics compared to the SMF disc.
Tim-
I know of yours due to the fact I saw what went into your trans on the rebuild. I know there are others here who have the SMF setup but as of right now, there really isn't any conclusions of long term effects to the gears.

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

I guess shearing off the bolts would be a pretty big mess. Thanks for the heads up, I will make sure to use good hardware when I put mine together and cross my fingers.

Thanks again

R. J.

 

[The Warden]

I know of yours due to the fact I saw what went into your trans on the rebuild. I know there are others here who have the SMF setup but as of right now, there really isn't any conclusions of long term effects to the gears.

Ah, I see what you mean...

I guess shearing off the bolts would be a pretty big mess. Thanks for the heads up, I will make sure to use good hardware when I put mine together and cross my fingers.

I believe, the point he was trying to get at is, there really isn't an operational difference between a DMFW with a Lucky Mod and a SMFW...the Lucky Mod essentially makes a dual-mass into a single-mass, and any dampening effect that the DMFW has is eliminated. So, if a problem exists with a single-mass flywheel leading to premature tranny wear, the exact same problem will come up with a Lucky-Modded DMFW.

This is just my personal opinion, but if you don't want the expense of a functioning dual-mass flywheel, I would recommend a single-mass flywheel over a Lucky Mod. As towcat pointed out, the bolts can shear (and this has happened), and pulling the tranny to repair or replace the flywheel is not my idea of a fun weekend project YMMV...

 

[geonc]

the biggest problem with the lucky conversion is the bolts that freeze up the two rotating parts have a tendancy to shear. Also, there is no additional dampener springs to attempt to isolate the harmonics compared to the SMF disc.
Tim-
I know of yours due to the fact I saw what went into your trans on the rebuild. I know there are others here who have the SMF setup but as of right now, there really isn't any conclusions of long term effects to the gears.

OK...so correct me if mis-informed but when doing the Lucky mod, are you guys "not" using a clutch disc made with built in dampening springs ...or simply re-installing the orig DMFW clutch disc?

In the SMFW swaps I have done, the disc becomes the shock absorber....

 

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

OK...so correct me if mis-informed but when doing the Lucky mod, are you guys "not" using a clutch disc made with built in dampening springs ...or simply re-installing the orig DMFW clutch disc?

In the SMFW swaps I have done, the disc becomes the shock absorber....

Yep On my first attempt I used the spring loaded clutch disc from LUK.

Just didn't use the correct nuts for the bolts.