Questions about Dana 70 wheel seals

Cubey

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My whole truck is only 7- 8000 pounds. Probably same amount on your rear axle. Do you know what it weighs?

No, but the GVWR is 11k, so it's probably safe to say 10k+.

Oh, and the RV door tag says 7500lb rear axle, but that's with the load range D tires at 65psi. Supposedly 65 is the max for dually rims. I have run them at 80 fine though before I knew that. I have run them at 75 since and they're fine. It helps the mpg vs 65.

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79jasper

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Yes. They have the bottle jacks, but not the topper cradles. The biggest floor jack they sell is 4 ton and it's $180.

The neighbor was shocked that a 3 ton jack couldn't lift, and he came and tried too. Again, it seemed to just stop. He has a 6 ton bottle jack, but I need a topper cradle for the axle.

He suggested one of these for the tight space..... but then I gotta buy that, the topper cradle, and an air compressor.
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-air-hydraulic-bottle-jack-94487.html
These are handy. https://www.harborfreight.com/autom...cks/22-ton-airhydraulic-floor-jack-63273.html
Use them on dump trucks.

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Cubey

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I'm not going to buy anything needing an air compressor, nor a jack that's $250, but thanks for the suggestion. If I was stationary with a shop/shed to store tools, then maybe it would make sense. If I was gonna go with an air/hydraulic jack, I'd get the $90 HFT 12 ton air/hydraulic bottle jack since it's portable, but I don't want to buy an air compressor.

I just bought a $65 Slime 2x heavy duty 12V air compressor a couple months ago, but it wouldn't work for that purpose.

Why spend so much for just a tire inflator instead of a $40 HFT portable 120V air compressor? Because those take up 6x times as much space, plus the accessories. When full timing in an RV, I have to keep stuff as small as possible. The Slime 2x clamps directly to the batteries and it can reach my rear tires even with the 176" WB. It's in a tidy plastic case so it stashes away easily. It weights probably 1/4 as much too, case and all.

Normal 12v air compressors meant for passenger vehicles are too wimpy for these 65+psi tires with so much weight on them, and they won't reach my rear tires. Trying to randomly find a place to air up these tires is hard too. Walmart's tire dept doesn't have a dually chuck on their hoses, so I could only inflate the inner tires, and that was due to the long straight valve extensions. I couldn't get the outers. In Abilene, I waited for 30mins at a WM gas station to get to the paid air hose due to the fuel delivery truck blocking it. Then I paid the machine and it wouldn't push more than ~60PSI. I ended up paying to lose air. So then I went to a semi service garage who was gonna charge me $10, which I agreed to because I needed air badly in the rears, but then they didn't charge me after all for whatever reason. I didn't fuss!

Needless to say, I was happy to discover that Slime 2x compressor and promptly ordered it back in mid-late January.

So anyway, this morning I ordered the "Bottle Jack Buddy" saddle that says it fits Dana 60 & 80. It should fit D70 too, since D60 has a tube diameter of 3.125" and D80 has 4". D70 is 3.5", so it's between the two in size. After my $10 off, it was just under $54 shipped. Not horrible for such a handy thing. They're USA made by what looks like a small business. On their website it says they're out of stock until next week, but maybe their ebay stock is separate since they had 6 available on there. The ebay seller looks to be them, based on the username.

Once it gets here, I'll take it with me when I go bottle jack shopping to be sure I get one that fits it. I might hit the many pawn shops here first in case I find some good deals, but odds are I'll be buying the bottle jack and stands at HFT.
 
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u2slow

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The Dana 70 has a capacity of 10,000lbs with the average being 8,000lbs, meaning what OEMs use it for, I'm guessing? https://www.dieselhub.com/axle/dana-70.html

Based on the placement of the axle on this RV, the Dana 70 weight rating/typical application, and the fact that a 6,000lbs floor jack can't seem to lift it; I suspect that the rear axle is holding up around 8,000lbs, give or take.

7500# is fairly typical for a 1-ton DRW.

The Dana 70's rated for 10k# are beyond '1-ton'... they're typically 70HD's with 4" tubes, and the bearing hubs are too large for 8x6.5" wheel patterns (usually 10-lug or a huge 6-lug.)
 

IDIBRONCO

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Why spend so much for just a tire inflator instead of a $40 HFT portable 120V air compressor?
One more thing is that you may not always have access to 120V when you need air.
Normal 12v air compressors meant for passenger vehicles are too wimpy for these 65+psi tires with so much weight on them,
I've discovered this myself. The cheap ones don't seem to last very long if you use them for high pressure. Even 35 PSI seems to be ******* them.
and they won't reach my rear tires.
I use mine for ATVs. I HATED only being able to reach 3 out of 4 tires without moving it. I finally cut the cigarette lighter plug off of the end on mine. Then I installed longer wires an a couple of alligator clips to just clamp on the battery. My problem solved.
 

Cubey

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I use mine for ATVs. I HATED only being able to reach 3 out of 4 tires without moving it. I finally cut the cigarette lighter plug off of the end on mine. Then I installed longer wires an a couple of alligator clips to just clamp on the battery. My problem solved.

Problem is, it's about 18 feet from the batteries to the rear axle and the wires on 12v compressors are wimpy.

With the Slime 2x, the long length is an air hose you can attach to reach the rear axle, so there's no massive voltage/amp drop like with trying to run a longer 12v cord.
 

chillman88

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Problem is, it's about 18 feet from the batteries to the rear axle and the wires on 12v compressors are wimpy.

With the Slime 2x, the long length is an air hose you can attach to reach the rear axle, so there's no massive voltage/amp drop like with trying to run a longer 12v cord.

If I had this problem, I would put the alligator clips on the compressor and use them in conjunction with a set of jumper cables to get the added reach. In fact, I've DONE it with my WMO transfer pump. Maybe not the BEST option, but typically anyone in our situations would have jumper cables already, so it's an idea to keep in mind if you ever do need it.
 

Cubey

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If I had this problem, I would put the alligator clips on the compressor and use them in conjunction with a set of jumper cables to get the added reach. In fact, I've DONE it with my WMO transfer pump. Maybe not the BEST option, but typically anyone in our situations would have jumper cables already, so it's an idea to keep in mind if you ever do need it.

I'd actually do better to use the house battery accessible from the outside near the rear axle, but that's a hassle too due to the compartment shape/size.

If it had been an emergency, I could have come up with something, such as using the 25ft outdoor extension cord with wires rigged up to it. Even if it meant off the ends (it's a cheap cord). I did consider that, but decided not to since I was in a city and I knew I could find an air hose somewhere with a dually chuck.

That's not an issue now with the 2X. I tested it out one day after I got it and it seems to work great, even on the heavy rear axle.

I have to use cheap little valve extensions that I really dislike, but on the plus side, they fit nicely in the case with the compressor, so I won't lose them. I don't trust them not to leak if left on, based on how they feel when attached. The decorative chrome wheel covers make it a little difficult to reach the stem with your fingers. I've considered just leaving the darn things off, but they do make the RV look nicer, and it needs all the help it can get.

I am tempted to spend another $55 on a set of these, because of how hard it is to reach the outer wheel valve stems without those little extensions. The wheels are gonna be off anyway, so I can swap out the inner wheel's really old extension and install the brackets under the lug nuts. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Phoenix-USA-AML1-Air-Inflation-Kit/139895286

I might wait a few months though, since those can be shipped to any Walmart for pickup. I do have the cheap extensions for the time being, which are better than nothing.
 

Cubey

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Boy, there sure isn't much info on D70 axles online, in terms of the nut retainer setup. Catalogs are of little help, since there are seemingly 3 different size nuts for D70s and 2 different retainer types!

Some have 2 nuts with a washer with tabs in between, and some have a single nut with a wedge that digs into the nut. There are 3-4 different thread sizes too, based on RockAuto's info.

USA STANDARD GEAR USA33477
Rear; Dana 70; 1.830 in. I.D.; 10 Outer Tabs

DANA 36635
Fits Rear; 2.065 in. Spindle Nut, Six Slots; with Dana Model 60 Axle
Or Rear; 2.065 in. Spindle Nut, Six Slots; with Dana Model 70 Axle

USA STANDARD GEAR USA33486
Rear; Dana 70; 1.940 in. I.D.; w/Plastic Ring (Only 2 Remaining)

DORMAN 615139 16; Thread; 2"-16; Hex Size: 2-9/16"; Height: 5/8"
Rear; Floating Rear Axle

Dorman "AutoGrade" 615139 is the same thing as Dorman "Help!" 81035. Why they sell 2 identical things like that, I dunno.

My Econoline Chilton manual shows the wedge, and that's what O'Reilly and AutoZone shows for an 85 E350 retainer. I might have to replace that single type of nut, if that's what it has. It's not cheap, $20 each retail/$16 each online.

It has a plastic ring within the metal nut:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...81035/4530868/1985/ford/e-350-econoline?pos=3

This picture is from a Dodge Dana 70 thread, showing the wedge and single Dorman 615139/81035 nut setup. If you look close, you can see a cut into the nut, which is how it's supposed to work. It digs into the nut and holds it there. They're meant for one use, I guess. I might be able swap the nuts around from either side to get a second use from them, but there's no guarantee.

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I cant decide if I should pull an axle shaft and look/measure before I start working, so I can have all parts on hand before I start. Knowing how things usually go, I'll end up having to run to O'Reilly for something mid-way through anyway, so pulling it apart early to try to be prepared is probably a dumb idea.

What sucks is I can't even LOOK until I get the jack, saddle, and stands because of the decorative wheel cover hiding the axle flange. So I'm gonna have to jack it up, get the wheels off of one side, pull a shaft, then run out and get a socket, nuts, retainers, etc.

I can either buy a spindle nut socket outright for $20-30, or get the AutoZone loaner set for $100 up front, then return it within 90 days when I'm done. (That's so much better than O'Reilly's 48 hour rental policy!) I'll probably do the loaner.. since it costs me nothing in the end. I can stick it on a credit card so it doesn't hurt my actual spending budget, and return it within a week or two.
https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-too...earing-locknut-remover-kit-7-piece/536901_0_0

It's still probably gonna cost me an extra $35-45 more than I expected due to the spindle nuts. On the plus side, I guess buying them retail at AutoZone is a nice gesture for the use of loaner tool, even if it costs me around $8 more than buying them online. That is... assuming they have the tool at either of the two locations here. If not, I'll be buying the socket AND I'll be paying retail prices.

I might have to drag things out through the end of the month by first checking the spindle nut setup, then ordering parts online to save a crap-load of money, then waiting 7+ days for the parts to come, then wait for a clear day to actually work on it.... hoping I have everything and don't have to wait a day or two for a parts house to get something additional for me.

I can either do all that, or spend about $100 more vs online prices.. which is kind of a big fat NO! I have way more time than I do money.

I suppose I might not even need brake shoes, if they aren't worn down. I might get away with cleaning them off and running rough sand paper over them. I did that on my F250 after it's wheel seal went bad on one side and I replaced it. Drove it around the country, across mountains in 2017 and then towing on mostly flat lands in 2018 with it after that, and it did fine. But, there's no telling what I'm gonna find inside those drums. I guess that tells me that I need to see what's inside before I buy any parts.

So, I guess trying to be in a rush is out of the question, unless I wanna spend the extra $100 by being in a hurry.

I just feel a bit stressed about sitting in my mom's driveway so long. There's always the possibility that code enforcement will come complaining eventually. It being parked here is ok, but me being inside isn't. Yeah I can drive it like it is, but it's not a great idea with oily brake shoes on one side. I haven't driven it any since I discovered the leak, except to move it from the grassy area back to the pavement before it rained. The ground was already a bit soft before but just dry enough I didn't create ruts (much), so there's no way I can park there now.
 

Scotty4

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Just so you’re aware, not saying it is the kindest of things to do, but if you rent a tool from Orielly and don’t bring it back, they don’t charge you anything additional. It’s usually cheaper than Autozone. Got a slide hammer once, week later the guy told me he had his eye on it and that was usually what everyone did. The more you know.
 

Cubey

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Just so you’re aware, not saying it is the kindest of things to do, but if you rent a tool from Orielly and don’t bring it back, they don’t charge you anything additional. It’s usually cheaper than Autozone. Got a slide hammer once, week later the guy told me he had his eye on it and that was usually what everyone did. The more you know.

O'Reilly's loaner tool brochure says: "Need the tool for your next repair? Just keep it. The deposit is the purchase price. It's that easy."

I wouldn't get a loaner to keep. They're often used and abused. I got something from O'Reilly once and it was missing a piece. I checked it before I left, so the clerk saw that. I can't remember if I took it anyway since I didn't need that piece and he made a note of it, or if he swapped it for another set. Either way, I always check the tools before I leave to be sure they aren't damaged or missing something, so they can't blame me for it, if there is.

AutoZone doesn't charge anything extra either as far as I know, you pay the full price and get a full refund, same as O'Reilly.

O'Reilly doesn't loan the big spindle nut socket set that AutoZone does, I checked. They only have the smaller ones for front axle spindle nuts. I don't want or need a big $100 set of huge sockets, so I'll return them after use. After using it, I will know what size I need for future uses, and I can buy that single size later for about $20 by itself if I want to.
 
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IDIBRONCO

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They're meant for one use, I guess
I've reused this style of nut before. I don't know whether or not you're "supposed" to, but I did. Unless you start the nut on the threads at exactly the same position that it came off, the place where the wedge dug into the plastic will be in a different spot.
 

u2slow

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I have used all the styles of spindle nut retainers. You can even use the front Dana 60 setup.

The one I like best (so far) is the Ford clicking type. Currently in my D250 on a D60 rear. X clicks for used bearing pre-load, Y clicks for new bearings.

DORMAN 615133
 

Cubey

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I have used all the styles of spindle nut retainers. You can even use the front Dana 60 setup.

The one I like best (so far) is the Ford clicking type. Currently in my D250 on a D60 rear. X clicks for used bearing pre-load, Y clicks for new bearings.

DORMAN 615133

Yes, that part # is the washer that has to be used between 2 6 sided hex nuts. Like this:
https://torqueking.com/product/4011/tk4011-torque-king-spindle-nut-upgrade-kit-with-socket/

Something mildly concerning on that page says:

"One of the big problems with the original equipment single nut, is the tendency for the outer wheel bearing inner race to wear into the nut. The TK40038 Inner Thrust Washer eliminates this problem thereby extending bearing life and reducing the chance of having a rear wheel seal leak."

I hope I don't need bearings too, but that possibility has crossed my mind.

RockAuto and O'Reilly only list dual nuts in 1.5" ID for Dana 60 (Dana part # 30636)

This appears to be the design of the dual nuts for these Dana 70s which come in two sizes: Dana 33732 1.94" ID / Dana 36635 2.065".

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My F250's full floating Sterling 10.25" has the ratcheting nut. I couldn't find the socket at O'Reilly, AutoZone, Advance (in that order). Finally, I found one at Napa. I'm not sure if the ratcheting nuts are available for these Ford Dana 70s.

Unless this ratcheting one but will fit, but it's just not listed for an 1985 E350. It is listed for a 1990 E350 as fitting: "Rear Left; Floating Rear Axle; With Motorhome Chassis; Thread Size: 2-16":
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/dorman-autograde-3358/wheel-bearings-hub-assy-seals-25107/bearings-and-seals-25072/spindle-axle-nut-11246/229f3c95ab2e/dorman-autograde-2-16-inch-thread-spindle-nut/615134/4181839/1990/ford/e-350-econoline?q=spindle/axle+nut&pos=2

The Spicer version says specifically that it's for Dana 80, so maybe it won't fit. It just depends on if the threads are identical on my D70 axle. What's weird is over to the side, it also says "Series: 61, 70 Rear" sooooooo maybe it would fit too??
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...43076/4723831/1990/ford/e-350-econoline?pos=4

Considering the single nut size is listed as 2-16" too...... yeah. I double checked the 87 F250 parts and it's the same size/part too. If that's the case, I will probably switch to the ratcheting nut. Maybe ratcheting nuts just didn't exist in 1985 so they aren't listed as fitting.

I know darn well parts exist that fit this E350/Dana 70 but aren't listed as such. Case in point, this axle breather bolt. It flat out says it doesn't fit, but it does. I had to get one to fit the new brake hose's metal block bcause it was too thick for the original breather.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/.../dorman-oe-solutions-axle-vent/924263/4260631

So, I guess this is gonna continue to drag out for the next 2-3 weeks. In a few days I'll have the jack and all, then on a clear day I can raise it and tear into one side to see what there is, then put it all back together just in case code enforcement comes complaining and I have to go drive around with a leaky wheel seal for 1-2 weeks, until online orders come, then tear it all apart again and do the actual job.

It's still better than spending $500-700 at a shop. I'd rather blow $375 for a month of RV park rent to stay in the area before I do that.
 
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