Questions about Dana 70 wheel seals

Cubey

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My RV just started leaking diff oil from a wheel seal because of course it did. To be fair, 3 years ago my 2 year newer F250 Sterling needed one, so it's due. That's probably why my braking has been a bit dodgy at times recently, I thought it was my imagination. Nope, it's obviously leaking diff oil into the drum. It must have just begun since I last had it parked for a couple of weeks.

Looking at diagrams, it appears there is only an inner wheel seal, no outer. The paper gasket for the axle shaft flange is the outer seal. Is that correct?

It seems like the only 100% sure compatible part is the Spicer 47507:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...47507/4723867/1985/ford/e-350-econoline?pos=5

Others are listed as the same exact dimensions and look correct in the photos, but the part number "9864S" is questionable:

https://www.amazon.com/WJB-WS9864S-...f=sr_1_5?keywords=9864S&qid=1583953326&sr=8-5

I say questionable because these two have the same part number, but they are totally incompatible with each other based on the photos. The one on the left lacks the bigger metal flange that the Spicer and National seals have:

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Cubey

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And.. what size brake shoes are Dana 70s, 3.5" or 3"?
 

hce

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The pictures of the seal are from different side. Only one seal, gasket or rtv on the axle to to hub. Should have 3" shoes. Good chance of needing a speedy sleeve.
 

Cubey

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The pictures of the seal are from different side. Only one seal, gasket or rtv on the axle to to hub. Should have 3" shoes. Good chance of needing a speedy sleeve.

Dunno, I've looked at other pics of different seals with the same part # that shows both sides. Maybe the design has just changed, like with the IDI lift pump's arm.

My F250 just needed the seal, no sleeve, and it's way higher mileage. It was a freaken $30-40 seal at O'Reilly, so I only did the leaking one. The other side never leaked, so maybe it has been replaced at some point.

The RV has the same exact symptom the truck had, gear oil running down the outside wall of the tire and dripping from the drum on the back side.

I will do the seals on both sides of the RV since they're so cheap and it's probably the originals on it, like so much else has been.

Gonna replace the brake shoes too, since I'm taking apart both sides anyway. I found some heavy duty riveted Centric 112.03580 shoes on Crapazon for $32. Comparable ones at O'Reilly are $60-80.
 

Cubey

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I guess I'll go pay retail for the MasterPro (O'Reilly) seals even though it'll cost $10 more for the pair ($18). At last I'll know I'm getting the right seal and I can return it if it's wrong. I'll also have warranty recourse if they leak too, though only a year warranty. 3 year on Nationals for another $10 more. ($18 MasterPro, $28 National)

I'll be kicking myself if I spend $8 on those WS9864S seals and they're wrong... or just garbage. They are so cheap, I'm thinking they can't be any good. It's not an easy task, so.... the best seals are probably what I should go for.

National or Timkin maybe? Timkin are on Amazon for $8.50/each with a good review from a 1990 E350 Dana 70 RV owner, so... I'm kind of leaning towards those maybe? No easy warranty claims though.
 
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Cubey

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The pictures of the seal are from different side.

Also... I think you missed my point.

AutoZone's brand of 9864S says it's for single rear wheel and O'Reilly's brand of 9864S says it's for dual rear wheels. And both have the same looking seal:

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What's really odd is the AutoZone one has the one review from someone with a 2000 F350 DRW and they said it fits?! I guess Auto Zone has the wrong fitment details?
 
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Philip1

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Also... I think you missed my point.

AutoZone's brand of 9864S says it's for single rear wheel and O'Reilly's brand of 9854S says it's for dual rear wheels. And both have the same looking seal:

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What's really odd is the AutoZone one has the one review from someone with a 2000 F350 DRW and they said it fits?! I guess Auto Zone has the wrong fitment details?
Might wanna look a little closer at the part numbers. They both are 9864S
 

Cubey

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AutoZone's brand of 9864S says it's for single rear wheel and O'Reilly's brand of 9854S says it's for dual rear wheels.

Might wanna look a little closer at the part numbers. They both are 9864S

Ah yes, I made a typo. I should have said 9864S twice. But the point was one says single, one says dual. O'Reilly has a different one for SRW. (see table below)

Based on dimensions listed by O'Reilly, the MasterPro 9864S is identical to Spicer 47507, while the MasterPro SRW one is noticeably different: (I added the red text)

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Notice the "DUAL OUTER" note I put? The Spicer 47507 seal says "Wheel Seal: Rear Outer; With Dana 70 Axle". That seal position doesn't exist?! RockAuto also lists it that way!

The link to the product where it says it:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/.../ford/e-350-econoline?pos=5#show_applications

I have a feeling the fitment details for all seals involved with these axles are royally screwed up.

I guess I am gonna have to take the spindle off and carry in the seal to O'Reilly, if the MasterPro 9864S doesn't fit.
 

Philip1

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Almost looks like the only difference is the material being used. I cannot see why the one labeled for single wheel wouldn't work for a dually or vice versa. The difference between the dually inner vs outer almost looks like an error when the part number was inputed into the website. That's at least my thoughts on it.
 

Cubey

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Almost looks like the only difference is the material being used. I cannot see whythe one labeled for single wheel wouldn't work for a dually or vice versa. The difference between the dually inner vs outer almost looks like an error when the part number was inputed into the website. That's at least my thoughts on it.

The Dana 60 (SRW) and 70 (DRW) do share many parts, like the diff cover gasket. They are roughly the same axle. I assumed that the DRW would have different wheel seals and bearings since it has to bear more weight.

All of these 9874S have fitment details that are all over the place:

Listed only as being for SRW:
- Duralast (AutoZone)
- ACDelco

Listed only as being for DRW:
- MasterPro (O'Reilly)

Listed as "Spicer/Dana Full-Floating Axle":
- Napa

Listed as "Non Dana/Spicer 60 Axle - Non Semi-Float" (?!??!)
- Timken

Doesn't list specific axles, just says "rear inner":
- National
- WJB (WS9864S)

Listed as "Dana 60 or 70":
- Yukon Gear (YMS9864S)

Why don't they ALL just say "Dana 60 and 70" if that's the case? :frustrate

EDIT: Oh for crying out loud!!! The Duralast one? When I have the E350 set it says "Single rear wheel" but when I set my F250 it says "Spicer Full Floating Axle" for the SAME EXACT PART! cookoo

So.... yeah. They are really screwed up/lazy with the E350 fitment entries, so it seems.
 
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hce

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Part of your confusion is assuming that dana 70 are only duallys. They came in a single variant also, see small picture to the left. Not reading your first post close enough, I was wrong an brake size a dually should have 3.5 shoes, single full floating over 8500 3, semi float under 8500 2.5. So a f-250 would have two different seal listings. My recommendation spend a few bucks more visit a parts store, then it is less stress and time if its the wrong seal.
 

Cubey

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Part of your confusion is assuming that dana 70 are only duallys. They came in a single variant also, see small picture to the left. Not reading your first post close enough, I was wrong an brake size a dually should have 3.5 shoes, single full floating over 8500 3, semi float under 8500 2.5. So a f-250 would have two different seal listings. My recommendation spend a few bucks more visit a parts store, then it is less stress and time if its the wrong seal.

Huh? Dana 70 is the dually version of the Dana 60.


And no... it seems that 85 E350s got 3" brake shoes. 3.5" brake shoes aren't sold for the 85 E350.

Here is the info on a brake drum from RockAuto:
"WAGNER BD60330 Rear; with 12 IN x 3in Brakes; Dual Rear Wheels"


The Oreilly E350 drum mentions "3.52 braking surface" but again, 3.5" shoes aren't available.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...61dgs/2544532/1985/ford/e-350-econoline?pos=1

I tried adding a 1985 F350 to O'Reilly and it shows me the same three sets of 3" brake shoes as for my E350.

Maybe 3.5" shoes are just no longer being made, so you have to use 3" instead?
 
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Cubey

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Wanna see something insane? The Duralast 9864S actually SAYS Dana 60 or 70... but ONLY if you DON'T have any vehicle specified!!

:***:

So, I am gonna order a pair of Timken 9864S from Crapazon for $8.50/each. A reviewer said it fits their dually 1990 E350 RV, and that part # seems to be right... despite so many databases being stupid as heck about it. The reviewer said they are better than National seals, which they previously tried.

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Cubey

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dana 60 9.75" ring gear, pinion shaft 1.625
dana 70 10.5" ring gear, pinion shaft 1.750

Yes the ring gears are different, but it seems all the axle shaft bearings and most seals are the same. The 70 seems to be based on the 60.

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