Prechamber coaking due to WMO

[Agnem]

Well after two and a half years, I decided it was time to refresh the fuel system on the Moosestang. Mileage seemed to be headed down hill and I've know for a while now that my IP wasn't maintaining my timing like it should. Given that these components were on the motor when I got it, and that it supposedly had 72K on the clock (which may be 172K, I have no way to be sure) the 30K or so that I have driven it has probably put the fuel system in the red zone, especially since I run WMO pretty extensively. So I picked up a rebuilt IP and reman'ed injectors from the same outfit that does my Moose Pumps, and I set about replacing all the injectors, return lines, and IP. When I got to the part where I removed the injectors, I observed a very odd visual. All the injectors looked normal when I removed them, albeit two were clearly leakers in a big way. However, the bores they came out of did not all look normal. I usually inspect each bore to see how the seating surface looks. On about half of them, I noticed that the hole the injector nozzle fits in had something which resembled a machined surface, like an insert, which had been pressed into the hole. This insert then, had a recess and a tiny hole which the pintle of the injector could stick through. :***: was my immediate reaction. What the heck happened to these heads, that one jug would be different from another. I blew compressed air in there, and sure enough, nothing changed. I decided to poke at it with an ice pick, and it was then that I realized that this machined surface was actually not machined, but Grown The ice pick felt like I stuck it in a lump of coal. As I probed this material, it was very hard, with a gritty broken glass kind of feel to it. Eventually I was able to break through it, and chip away at it until the bores looked normal again. This stuff was really hard to photograph, so I don't know if you'll be able to see it or not, but here is a picture of one of the bores before I cleaned it out.

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I was a little worried about this stuff falling into the cylinder, but didn't have much choice. I busted them up, and shot some compressed air in there, before installing the new injectors and getting it running again. No ill effects so far. So I'm wondering now why only some of the jugs had this problem, and how widespread it is in the precups. Obviously this is the result of running that sinister alternative fuel that goes by the name "Free stuff". I guess time will tell if it happens again, but in the mean time all you WMO users should be on the lookout for this carbon build up in your heads.

 

[FordGuy100]

<Plugs ears with fingers> La la la.......la la la....I'm not hearing this .

Seriously, I couldnt tell anything from the pic, sorry, I dont think anyone would be able to take a pic of it so we all could see what your seeing. How much buildup was it?

Now the question is, should I burn WMO, or not. Heck, I say I will advance my pump some, and every week go WOT for a minute to get the EGT's up, to hopefully burn off most of the carbon in there.

Mel, in all seriousness, how much carbon was it, was it enough to make you think twice about using WMO?

 

[icanfixall]

Mel... Was this carbon buildup on the leaking injector cylinders? I'll bet it was. Its probably from that. The generating company I retired from had a coal burner at Laughlin Nevada. The coal sometimes would form something called clinkers. This coal carbon would hang down anyplace it could attach to. Sometimes they were so large TNT was needed to break them loose after shut down of the boiler. Usually we just shot them off the boiler tubes with 12 gauge double ot buckshot. They were single shot shotguns and really killed your shoulder after an 8 to 12 hour shift. So what you may be seeing is just something like this. Maybe some water injection will blow it out. Kinda a good reason for water-**** injection isn't it. Mercury outboards use something called Mercury Carbon cleaner to rid the combustion chambers of the carbon buildup. You might try that too. Probably cheaper that H2O-**** injection but really not as fun in the long run.

 

[Diesel JD]

Those holes that had buildup must have been different in some way from the ones that didn't. I would think maybe for some reason they were running colder. You yourself admitted it was the most awful cobbled together fuel system, you can't expect them to all go out at the same rate. Compression check? The pump was awful you said, maybe the cylinders all had slightly different timing... Have you had an oil analysis done on the Moosestang?

 

[Exekiel69]

Sorry to hear this, it would be good to know in a few thousand miles if there is any changes. Mel do You use any additive on the wmo during the winter or You just blend it with diesel?
You don't run this on the Moose truck (right?) but on the moosetang so for people with no guinea pigs it does raise a red flag.

Thank You for the info.

 

[sassyrel]

thats why when the other engine gets put in the red truck--there will be water injection on it--steam cleans the combustion chamber-----and should clean the precups also--be nice to have a idi engine without precups---

 

[Agnem]

I like Gary's idea, that it was injector related. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to test the injectors. I'm sure they were shot. It would have been nice to correlate the plugged holes to weak or peeing injectors. I know that pic probably isn't doing anything for you, but if you blow it up big you can see the carbon.

 

[towcat]

mel-
if you want to take a gamble with oil cocktails, ATF has the highest detergent packages in the mix. Running that and a water mist might loosen much of the stuff up.

 

[oldmisterbill]

Gary -What if I use bird shot with a 20 gauge will that be small enough to kill the carbon in the cylinders
Mel is that buildup the white I see in the pic?I recall seeing a white carbon like build up on valves etc in engines-it is hard to remove and very brittle.Will water injection remove it? Do the carbon cleaners we see advertised only remove the black -softer carbons we commonly see? I don,t know these answers.Looking for more comments.We do need to find a cheap fuel that will work,so this is important to all of us.

 

[towcat]

OMB-
there is no "magic bullet" fuel that will avoid problems. Even the refiners tweak #2 throughout the year. I've never been an advocate of running higher then 50% blend of WVO or WMO in our tanks. There's no doubt it's damn near a full-time job tweaking the cocktail mix throughout the year, I like to stay with WMO and its near brothers. proper filtration is the starting block, but running different ingredients every few tanks is also helpful in retarding carbon buildup. Heck, it's kinda like throwing Seafoam in a gasser tank once a month.

 

[Agnem]

No it's not the white stuff. I think what your seeing there is the clean seating area. It's that the hole is filled with a dark gray (characole) like material. I do get a lot of ATF and run it as much as I can. It flows real well.

 

[tractorman86]

that's some wierd stuff there mel i've never heard of anything like that... i wonder if the copper washers where leaking just slightly and it is a concoction of dried fuel, oil, and dirt. seafoam advertises that it will work on diesels also, i wonder if it really does.

 

[Greenbeast6.9]

that's some wierd stuff there mel i've never heard of anything like that... i wonder if the copper washers where leaking just slightly and it is a concoction of dried fuel, oil, and dirt. seafoam advertises that it will work on diesels also, i wonder if it really does.

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23886

 

[FordGuy100]

Hmmm...well then it looks like WMO causes carbon buildup...

Mel and Greenbest....did you see this carbon buildup in all the cylinders, or just a couple of them. Can we link the carbon buildup to bad spray pattern, ie bad injectors?

I think we should all be on the hunt for an additive that will remove carbon buildup.

 

[Greenbeast6.9]

All 8 of mine were like the one pictured.