New engine/ARP stud blues

[zigg]

Got my "new" 6.9 all up and running, but now I've got a problem. (oh, surprise, surprise)

Looks like I've got a coolant leak. It appears to be coming up the ARP studs, only 3 of them on the passengers side, right up under the valve cover. I'm guessing that the holes that the studs go into are open to coolant at the bottom, and it's finding it's way up somehow. Not much coming out, but I can actually see it bubbling when the engine's running. No oil in water/water in oil though.

So, I guess I'll have to undo the heads and somehow seal those studs. I'm thinking of just loosening all of them till just snug, then pulling those 3, and sealing them and then just retorque everything without actually lifting or pulling the head or messing with anything else-try not to disturb the gasket, see if I can get away with it.

Anyone have any thoughts?

I just feel like

 

[reklund]

just pull the studs one at a time, and apply thread sealant and re-torque. You should be able to get away with that as long as you drain the coolant and the engine is stone cold.

Ryan

 

[catman]

headstuds

I would drain coolant pull studs one at a time apply pipe dope and torque , I would not be to concerned about head gasket.

 

[sle2115]

just pull the studs one at a time, and apply thread sealant and re-torque. You should be able to get away with that as long as you drain the coolant and the engine is stone cold.

Ryan

+1
That is exactly what I would do.

I had to do that to a customers SB Chevy once as he forgot to use sealant. It was a lower compression engine, 11 to 1 IIRC, but I did ALL the studs, one at a time. It ran for a long time, after that with no problems.

 

[icanfixall]

Run a tube of silver seal or something I wont say on this board because most don't like it any. You could always drain all the coolant and refill with plain water and run it till enough rust builds up and stops the leak. It may take a week or two but it wont cost anything. I'm surprised that some of the bolts are into the water jackets. This is the first time I've herd of this. All mine were blind holes. Maybe you have a special test block that got out into the world that was not for everybody. Do you know where the block came from?

 

[sle2115]

Run a tube of silver seal or something I wont say on this board because most don't like it any.

I don't like either, silver seal or Bars, so there!

Personally, if it is worth fixing, fix it right. I can't believe someone that is considering pulling a fresh rebuild for a few PSI of oil pressure would suggest such a thing...

 

[icanfixall]

Who said anything about Bars???;p Geez. The leak will stop by itself probably. Please.... Sombody get a rope. I've slipped a bit.... Pulling the studs one at a time really bothers me. Its a long way to go just to seal some leaks but do what you can sleep with. Or you could run some Evans Coolant and not need a pressure cap.....

 

[sle2115]

Who said anything about Bars???;p Geez. The leak will stop by itself probably. Please.... Sombody get a rope. I've slipped a bit.... Pulling the studs one at a time really bothers me. Its a long way to go just to seal some leaks but do what you can sleep with. Or you could run some Evans Coolant and not need a pressure cap.....

Just ribbing you, nothing serious! You didn't have to say Bars, I knew what you were talking about... I wondered about the high compression of these motors as well. My fear though is that if the studs don't go to water, how is it leaking water, could there be another issue hidden here?

 

[Agnem]

I'm trying to think where there are bolts that penetrate the water jacket. Maybe somebody with a short block handy could confirm this for zigg. Based on the condition of the bolts I've seen when removed, I can't think of any that actually do that, so before Zigg starts removing bolts, we should be sure that is the cause of the problem. However, if it is true, then I concur. I sucessfully got away with doing a one bolt swap when I broke a lock washer on the very last bolt being tightened during the final torque sequence. I torqued them all, then backed that one out and replaced the washer, however I should add that the engine was never started and was never wet at that point. I sure hated doing it though. The cast iron makes all kinds of nasty noises that sound like it's saying "boy, I'd really like to crack for you."

 

[zigg]

I'm trying to think where there are bolts that penetrate the water jacket. Maybe somebody with a short block handy could confirm this for zigg. Based on the condition of the bolts I've seen when removed, I can't think of any that actually do that, so before Zigg starts removing bolts, we should be sure that is the cause of the problem.

Well, that's what I thougth too Mel. Weird is that it's only the 3 on the passenger side just under the valve cover. That's got me a bit worried too. I got the heads from DAS a local diesel guy when just does diesels, and he's got a good reputation, and says those heads were completely checked out and gone through with new valves/springs/keepers etc checked for cracks etc and he knew I was planning to turbo this unit, so go figure. I may give him a call too.

I did run a bottoming tap into the block holes, to clean the threads, but I took so long to build this engine(almost 2 years) that I can't specifically recall certain parts, like if I checked the bolt holes to see if they go into the coolant jacket or not.

I do have a vague recollection of a post by someone who had got the studs and was asking that very question, but I can't find it or recall what the answers were.(sigh)

So, for now it's just sitting there. I've got to take a break from it till my stomach settles down....

Zigg

 

[zigg]

Just had a look at the ARP website, and buried in a pdf tech folder I found a spot where it says there:

"Since most studs extend into water jackets, coat threads with ARP thread sealer, and thread into block hand tight only."



(sigh)

 

[highest_vision]

I have trouble believing that the bolts thread into water jackets in this case, but they do pass very close to water passages from head to block, all bolts under the valve cover.
Good luck
James

 

[icanfixall]

Why are you able to look at the bolts under the valve covers? Do you mean the bolts in question are outside of the valve covers and under the covers but on the outside kinda near the exhaust ports. Also how did these heads fit the motor? I really hate to ask but I mean nothing funny but are these heads 6.9 or 7.3 and how are you able to determine what size they are...

 

[sle2115]

Just had a look at the ARP website, and buried in a pdf tech folder I found a spot where it says there:

"Since most studs extend into water jackets, coat threads with ARP thread sealer, and thread into block hand tight only."



(sigh)

That is just a standard precautionary warning I would guess as many engines do have that feature.

 

[Agnem]

I would agree. Precautionary, but I really don't think it's true in this case, although for Zigg's sake, I hope it is. Thing is, when we use regular head bolts, there is no sealant precaution required, and I've never heard of head bolts leaking water, so I can't see why studs would do it either. As far as the block and heads are concerned, they can't tell if it is a stud or a bolt, so there should be no difference. It almost seems that is has to be a cracked head or possibly something with the rubber insert in the head gasket maybe shifting at the last minute and allowing water to find a bolt hole. I'm sure if I were Zigg I'd be sick too. Joe Lewis knows that feeling also. I knew it sort of when I snapped a rocker arm bolt back in the late 80's, but I wasn't in as deep as those two guys are.