I timed my truck

[84TD]

I got my timing meter and hooked it up last night. My truck was 5* ATDC at idle, moving to 9* ATDC at 2K. Putting the Lumi probe in and I started the engine to watch the pulses, that was one of the coolest things I have ever seen. I may even take a video of it and post it for anyone that has not seen this. Seeing the combustion happening was cool. I noticed when you let off the throttle from 2K there is no combustion while the engine is winding down, I didnt know it did that. No wonder these things slow down so fast when you let up.

So I loosened the IP and 4 injector lines and using a prybar and a ratchetstrap I pulled the IP towards the pass side as far as it would go and tightened it all back up. Now I am at 1* BTDC at idle and about 5* at 2K. Does that sound right? the engine retards 4* from idle to 2K?

This is as far as I could get the IP. Any advice on moving it farther? I was thinking maybe if I loosened all the injector lines. They look hard to get to without actually removing any lines.

The seat o meter saw no difference but there does seem to be a little less smoke.

I can see now why people like the pulse method better, I noticed right away if you dont have the lumi wire just right(as straight as possible) you can get erratic readings.

 

[6.9poweredscout]

i've always wondered how to time a diesel, i see the "timing marks" on my crank and front cover, but only know how to on a gasser. what are you reading off of? i'm fully rebuilding my motor and want everything to go back together and work correctly.

-Jon

 

[sle2115]

i've always wondered how to time a diesel, i see the "timing marks" on my crank and front cover, but only know how to on a gasser. what are you reading off of? i'm fully rebuilding my motor and want everything to go back together and work correctly.

-Jon

Get a timing meter. I have an MT1480 for sale, ready to go with the MAC pulse adapter which generally goes for $200 or so by itself. Mine is listed in the marketplace and several have expressed an interest, but no one has "shown me the money" yet so it is still up for grabs. First $300 and $15 shipping takes it away! I have more than that in it.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

The IP only turns so much, there are elongated holes where the studs go through and once it hits the side of that hole that's as far as it goes.

I ran into the same situation with the International, I backed off the allen screw at the bottom of the timing retard arm to get more timing advance going down the road.

 

[84TD]

I ran into the same situation with the International, I backed off the allen screw at the bottom of the timing retard arm to get more timing advance going down the road.

Could you elaborate on that?

 

[RLDSL]

If you need to turn it further and there's still some room to go in the bolt slots on the pump flange, loosen the injector lines at the injectors and the back of the pump ( a crowsfoot flare nut wrench and a wobble extension are real handy here ) and you'll take the tension out of the lines and get a little more play in the thing. It's really a good idea to loosen them before any moving to avoid cracking injector lines ( don't ask me how I know this

If you run out of room to move the thing and want to go further, chances are someone got the gear out of alignment at some time and a quick look at Ziggs article will help you take care of that .

--------Robert

 

[Agnem]

There seems to be some confusion. If your using the luminosity method (which you are), your shooting for 5 degrees ATDC at 1400 RPM. BTDC readings are only when using the pulse method, and those are taken at 2K RPM. I suspect right now you may be too advanced. The actual setting ranges from 4 degrees to 6 degrees when using the luminosity method, but this requires that you know the cetane value of your fuel. Since you don't know the value (and it's likely to change anyway), 5 degrees is right in the middle of the scale in terms of cetane rating, so that is what I'd use.

 

[84TD]

There seems to be some confusion. If your using the luminosity method (which you are), your shooting for 5 degrees ATDC at 1400 RPM. BTDC readings are only when using the pulse method, and those are taken at 2K RPM. I suspect right now you may be too advanced. The actual setting ranges from 4 degrees to 6 degrees when using the luminosity method, but this requires that you know the cetane value of your fuel. Since you don't know the value (and it's likely to change anyway), 5 degrees is right in the middle of the scale in terms of cetane rating, so that is what I'd use.

Ok I was going on this...

After test driving and trying a few other timing settings I settled on 2˚ ATDC @ 2000 rpm using the MT480 luminosity style probe.

From this site... http://webpages.charter.net/idi_diesel/My_Notes_on_IP_Timing.htm

It did seem to be rattling a bit more when it was cold this morning, So the normal setting should be 5* at 1400?
I am 5* at 2K right now so I guess I need to back it off a little.
It is really weird how these trucks retard as the rpm increases!!!!!

 

[Agnem]

I'm familiar with that site. It's a nice reference, and I forget who put it up, but the accuracy of his timing info is in error. The only reason this is all fresh in my mind (I don't do luminosity timing anymore personally) is that Darrin Tosh called me the other night when he was doing his truck, and I had to get the Helm Ford factory shop manual off the shelf and look it up. Definitely 1400 RPM for luminosity. 2000 for pulse. That's another disadvantage to the luminosity method. Timing in the pump is controlled by two forces - the external mechanical lever operating on the advance piston, and the internal fuel presure which takes over at higher RPM. The fuel presure will override whatever influence the external mechanical arm is giving, so you have to get the R's up to be sure the external cam and arm are not influencing the setting. I'm not sure 1400 does that. If so, it must be right at the threshold of loosing external influence. I don't suppose the optical method is robust enough to work at higher RPM's, at least with that meter design.

 

[Diesel JD]

Mel the Haynes manual also states 1.5*ATDC at 1400 for the luminosity method, not that its gospel, wonder what IH or a real fuel injection shop would say. I've been telling people to set their engines to that spec and that is where mine is set. Maybe I'm giving something up...but it starts and runs well there...fuel mileage is maybe a bit low but about what you'd expect.

 

[93_E_350]

Mel,

The rpm range of 2k and 1 to 2 degrees ATDC was suggested to me by people on sites like this one so I tried it. The information listed on my site concerning the setting of 2* ATDC at 2000 rpm is what I found worked best for me and accurate. When the engine is cold, and the cold advance is engaged the engine does rattle more as (and I may be wrong on this) I believe you have said yours does also when timed correctly. Mine’s been running great. As far as “I don't suppose the optical method is robust enough to work at higher RPM's, at least with that meter design” I’d like to know what you base that on?

93

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Could you elaborate on that?

Follow the aluminum arm down, there is an allen screw that is the adjustment for how far the retard piston goes in in relation to them arm. Turning out will advance timing, turning in will retard timing.

You can also adjust the cam to change the timing curve in relation to throttle position.

 

[6.9poweredscout]

well what does the timing get set to if everything is just bolted in? it'll be "rough" enough to make it run?? i'm guessing it'd be best to time a brand new engine so everything is good? what should a new engine get set at, and after break in what's the best setting to run at?

sle2115 i'll let you know, when i get the motor from the macine shop i'll talk to you.

thanks,
-Jon

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Provided the timing gears are lined up properly, you just line up the marks on the IP and tower for a "good enough to start and run" setting.

 

[Agnem]

Mel,

The rpm range of 2k and 1 to 2 degrees ATDC was suggested to me by people on sites like this one so I tried it. The information listed on my site concerning the setting of 2* ATDC at 2000 rpm is what I found worked best for me and accurate. When the engine is cold, and the cold advance is engaged the engine does rattle more as (and I may be wrong on this) I believe you have said yours does also when timed correctly. Mine’s been running great. As far as “I don't suppose the optical method is robust enough to work at higher RPM's, at least with that meter design” I’d like to know what you base that on?

93

Theory on the meter design is the reaction time of LDR's or Light Dependent Resistors, which without actually taking the probe apart and verifying it, is probably what is in that boot that slips over the glass glow plug. LDR's produced in the 80's often had slow reaction times, and so it's possible that at higher RPM's, the LDR may not transition fast enough for the meter circuitry to get a valid pulse within the time window defined for reasonable accuracy. Again, this is just speculation, and I didn't build the meter. I'm just presenting a plausible explaination for why they choose 1400 RPM as the setting. I'm also not trying to discredit what has worked for people, I'm only reading what comes out of the service manual, which Ford wrote for their service people, and it's what the Rotunda meter was designed to work with. If an IH service manual says differently, I'd be interested in hearing that. An interesting experiment would be to time a truck using the pulse method, and then read the timing back with the luminosity method to see what it shows. That's a nice site you put up. You should put your name to it.