Horse trailer in the hills

[79GLIDE]

Well I previously had a '94 F350 CC 7.3IDI transition turbo with E4OD(junk) and 4.10 open rear with 235K and unknown service history prior to my purchase for a song, $1400. Reman E4OD($2000) and I was in business. Turned out the open differential and lack of 4X4 was a deal breaker as I was primarily hauling firewood and any travel off a hard surface was an adventure. Also, with a heaping stacked load of firewood in the bed, and a trailer load in tow, maybe 2 1/2 ton loaded including trailer, it would only maintain interstate speed on the flats. I was dissappointed with the performance.

My wife and I ride horses, and used the '87 gasser to pull our 3 horse gooseneck(3 1/2 tons loaded) to Eminence, MO for a trail ride last May(1000 miles round trip). This involves lots of long grades up and down. The 460 pulls hard in spite of the 3.54 gear, but fuel economy was terrible, and generally I am ready to give diesel another chance.

I picked up the '90 4X4 for $1200. It runs very smooth, with 118K. I see a lot of you guys have the ZF trans. I haven't had this truck hooked up to the horse trailer yet. My concern now is that the E4OD isn't going to give me enough control over the limited power this 7.3 is making. The PS guys in our group rave about their performance, but I'd like to stick to the simplicity of the non-computerized IDI.

I've rifled through the other threads for information and such, but any summary of experiences or tips outside of adding a turbo would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TWeatherford]

I have pulled a horse trailer (bumper pull 2 horse) from Colorado to Kentucky and back. Had a decent amount of weight in the bed, crossed a scale right at 14,000 lbs. No turbo. I've never driven an E4OD but I don't think I'd care for it. I went up through Nebraska so that I could avoid the section of Rockies west of Denver. No turbo, no oxygen at that altitude, and big passes are no fun at all. You'll get there, just not as fast as everyone else. I strongly suggest good gauges (pyro, trans temp, coolant, oil) so you can watch them and know when to back off.

 

[Mat J]

my idi pulls our sundowner 3 horse ok. on flat land. it pulls fine really just slow to get going. i just put a turbo on my truck and am still working out the kinks but hopefully going to pull it next weekend, and see how it does.

 

[79GLIDE]

I bought this truck with the E4OD for my wife's driving convenience. Not that she can't drive a manual, but she hauls by herself only 2-3 times per year. Not a proficiency builder to say the least. Based on the E4OD tech articles, I suppose I could throw $3000 at the transmission/TC.

Mat J, Which turbo did you decide to go with? After reading the tech articles, and what the other guys are running, it looks like the Hypermax Pulse may be more popular. For my application, open road/top end is where I'll need the help. The Banks web site has graphics that represent at least 50% gain in power, but I'd didn't see details about any additional mods to get those numbers. Surely they aren't getting these gains by simply bolting on the turbo. I'm just concerned that I will have trouble maintaining 55MPH attempting to climb those long grades on the highways down there. These aren't mountains by any means, but they're not mole hills either. I'd like to hear how your turbo experience goes.

 

[RLDSL]

Pop a nice open exhaust on it and a hypermax cowl induction and turn the fuel up just enough to give you some power but now smoke like crazy and you should pull it just fine. Even with the stock clogged up exhaust mine pulled my 10k 5er just fine over the Ozarks ....that is once I figured out it wasn't governed at the same rpms as the buses I used to work on ( 2700) and started winding the thing up where the engine could stretch it's legs. When you're loaded, it's OK to wind them up, it' keep's the engine temps cooler and keeps you climbing. Once I figured that out I was keeping right up with the semis that were climbing the steep hills, and you realistically can't ask for any more than that. The turbo allows it to pull away a little more and my brownie allows me extra gears now to be in just the right place for climbing so I don't have to drop too far on a long hill, but a plain N/A truck is no slouch.

I couldn't imagine using a 460 gasser to pull anything heavy, you'd be lucky to get 3-4 mpg

 

[Goofyexponent]

I have an E4OD and I've pulled some pretty decent loads with my truck. I can't say I've hauled a horse trailer, but I have hauled car trailers with vehicles on board and I have no complaints.

 

[Sycostang67]

My 85 and 93 were identical in drivetrain with the exception of the engine, same transmission, gears, and tire size. On my yearly camping trip pulling a 1973 25' trailer, the 460 got about 4mpg and would slow to 35mph(from 55) about halfway up the top of the biggest hill. My IDI gets 11mpg and will hold 55mph all the way to the top as long as I keep the egt's in check.

 

[FordGuy100]

The turbo's do help a lot. I towed a boat over the mountains to the coast and back towing a boat around 4500 pounds if I remember correctly. Not that heavy...

But I was able to stay with a duramax with a camper that I was following. There were times I had to go WOT to maintain speed (60mph) but that was on the longer grades. EGT's stayed in check so all was good.

I like the idea of opening it up, it will help out a lot if you can get it to breath a little better.

Keep the RPM's high, and your foot to the floor, drive by your pyro. Just think, at 3000+rpm's and WOT your IDI will be getting better fuel economy than your 460 would hauling on flat ground

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

Having hauled very heavy with my old 6.9 for many miles and years, I will relate my own educated opinion.

For moderate towing in hilly terrain, a manual equipped non-modified IDI is barely capable of keeping out of everything else's way; an automatic cuts that capability to about a third.

With a turbo, very open intake, fuel turned up, and lots of other tricks and goodies, a manual-equipped IDI can then begin to keep up with traffic, but it ain't gonna be no race-horse.

I always just put the throttle on the floor until a slow-down was necessary and sooner or later it always got the job done.

 

[79GLIDE]

Last May to Eminence, MO I ended up with $500 in gas receipts for a 1000 mile round trip, cool temperatures and head winds contributed, 4-6MPG average. Not good!

I'm encouraged by these replies. The practical approach appears to be tuning the N/A to peak..............exhaust, intake, IP tuning and so on, then move to the turbo later once the others are optimized. I have read the tech articles regarding IP adjustment. What incrementals should I use? Is 1 1/2 - 2 flats the average, as that seems what most are running?

What straight through or conventional mufflers are you guys running? I'd like a moderate amount of exhaust note, but wife and my horses aren't ready for straight pipe.

I've seen a variety of opinions regarding fuel additive injector cleaners, and wondered if any is most popular. I have used Seafoam in my injected gas engines, and that seems to work well. Short of pulling and inspecting the injectors, I'd like to optimize the perfomance of my current injectors prior to making IP changes.

Thanks for your time and opinions.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

The practical approach appears to be tuning the N/A to peak..............exhaust, intake, IP tuning and so on, then move to the turbo later once the others are optimized.

One point many fail to understand when adding a turbo-charger to an engine that did not initially have one is the lack of an AFC provision on the injector-pump.

A turbo will help to some extent, but will not acheive it's potential without also having a turbo-compatible injector-pump.

AFC (automatic fuel control) is a boost sensing device that automatically/dramatically adds more fuel with increased boost, thus optimizing use of the boost; the higher the boost pressure, the more fuel supplied to the cylinders, sort of like automatically turning up and then back down the fuel as boost demands.

 

[Fozz]

The E4OD doesn't have the best reputation, but it's really a pretty good tranny. I've got pretty good service out of mine (on my second one) and I pull a 10k 5r. Put an aux cooler on for the tranny, and it should last quite a while. Keeping the tranny cool is the key to longevity.

 

[RLDSL]

One point many fail to understand when adding a turbo-charger to an engine that did not initially have one is the lack of an AFC provision on the injector-pump.

A turbo will help to some extent, but will not acheive it's potential without also having a turbo-compatible injector-pump.

AFC (automatic fuel control) is a boost sensing device that automatically/dramatically adds more fuel with increased boost, thus optimizing use of the boost; the higher the boost pressure, the more fuel supplied to the cylinders, sort of like automatically turning up and then back down the fuel as boost demands.

Of course, Hypermax can fix you up with one of those critters

 

[RLDSL]

Last May to Eminence, MO I ended up with $500 in gas receipts for a 1000 mile round trip, cool temperatures and head winds contributed, 4-6MPG average. Not good!

I'm encouraged by these replies. The practical approach appears to be tuning the N/A to peak..............exhaust, intake, IP tuning and so on, then move to the turbo later once the others are optimized. I have read the tech articles regarding IP adjustment. What incrementals should I use? Is 1 1/2 - 2 flats the average, as that seems what most are running?

What straight through or conventional mufflers are you guys running? I'd like a moderate amount of exhaust note, but wife and my horses aren't ready for straight pipe.

I've seen a variety of opinions regarding fuel additive injector cleaners, and wondered if any is most popular. I have used Seafoam in my injected gas engines, and that seems to work well. Short of pulling and inspecting the injectors, I'd like to optimize the perfomance of my current injectors prior to making IP changes.

Thanks for your time and opinions.

If you go to a 4" straight through big truck muffler, it will do the trick and noise will be comfortable, If you have a Truck Pro or other heavy truck parts supply around you can get them pretty cheap, similar to eht Walker big truck muffler you see talked about on the PSD boards but cheaper in stock universal form. They were designed for these type engines. The tiny gas burner mufflers they put on them at ford really choke them off.

I prefer the Howes fuel additives, in summer the meaner power cleaner and winter the lubricator, antigel, really great stuff ( it's literally saved my life more than once), and I sell a competitors product, go figure.

Also , retiming your pump will help with mileage. The factory timing spec of 8.5 deg btdc by the pulse method was configured with the old higher sulfur fuel, with the introduction of the new ULSD fuel mileage and power went in the toilet, increasing that timing by 1.2 deg to 9.7 deg btdc to match the euro timing specs ( where they have been running on ULSD for years) makes a huge difference in fuel mileage and power. You will recover that which was lost with the introduction of the new fuel, but it's not too far advanced that if you find a truckstop that still has 500ppm fuel , you can't fill up and enjoy the power run

 

[79GLIDE]

I read about pulse method timing in the tech threads, but have no idea where to find a shop in Omaha that does it. Will I have to go to Ford garage for this procedure? Out of curiosity, and I won't go crazy trying to time by ear because I can't afford a catastrophe, do you rotate the pump clockwise or counter-clockwise for advance/retard. Do I want to get baseline pyro measurements prior to any adjustment?

Now I don't want to pretend that I know anything, and don't jump on me for admitting this, but I have never owned an induction timing light, and I have timed all of my distributor gas motors by ear. Can you apply similar techniques here, or is that asking for serious trouble. I'm no idiot, but like many, trial and error is hard to resist and, sometimes, a hard way to learn.

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