Glow Plug Idea Question

The_Josh_Bear

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Timing on these trucks is more important than most think. Also the timing changes with aging injectors. Timing that is off can cause hard starts, overheating, lack of power, and poor mpg to name a few.

Having a timing device is really not optional, it is critical. There may be some who did it enough by timing machine to notice key sounds and get very close by ear On a solid running truck. But that would likely only be 3-5% of the members here.

To IDIbronco’s point, to many think because there truck starts and runs their timing is on, likely it is off 2-5 degrees. The $200 investment in a timing machine is well worth the reward.
Don't forget easier starts too! LOL Very retarded timing makes really easy and smooth starts because the burn is hot and inefficient. I played around years ago with timings and I was really surprised how easily she started and quietly she ran. That's the end of the positives, of course!
I don't remember the number but I want to say 7° retarded from nominal for a total of 1° BTDC.
 

Big Bart

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Your point goes to what IDIBronco has pointed out before, they are forgiving on the timing. Just that does not mean they should be run out of time. Many of us dwelled on forking out $100-300 for a timing machine to realize we should have done it when we bought the truck. They are a very valuable tool for a IDI.
 

Isaac Ristow

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Search the forum for 60G glow plugs I made a thread on it. AC Delco 60G glow plugs for a GM 6.5 are a dual coil plug that is self limiting and will not burn out or swell. I hooked a 60G to a battery charger for over a hour and it glowed orange the whole deration and never swelled. They need to be modified to fit the IDI they are a bit shorter so you have to machine or grind off some of the bolt head on them so they seat into the head. I put 60G plugs in my plow truck and I run them for 30-45 seconds before I crank which warms the prechamber up some and makes a huge difference, I continue holding them for a few seconds after it starts to smoothen it up and clear up the smoke. They draw less amperage so they do not work with a 7.3 controller it will do the clicking like it will when you have bad glow plugs. The 60G needs a manual button
 

Poorman

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So I plugged it in this morning for three hours, it started fine but still smoked more than usual for being plugged in. I ran it down the road five miles and got up to temperature (195). I never heard the timing advance kick out, usually it's very obvious. When I got back I jumped a wire from the battery to the connection on the IP with the engine running, at first I thought it did nothing, then the third time I noticed a super slight increase in idle speed, almost undetectable. But no rattling like would expect from advanced timing, I suspect the cold advance isn't working, any ideas? I've ran stanadyn additive religiously since replacing the pump 13,000 miles ago, other than the last 600 miles I ran diesel kleen because I couldn't find stanadyn.
I called around trying to find a shop that would time this thing properly, the only shop that even works on them said they just use they're ears, anyone know of someone in southern Oregon that could time it? So what do you guys do if you time it with a machine and it doesn't sound quite right? what do you trust? or does this never happen?
Isaac, I got some 60g's, when held next to my zd1's they where so short that it didn't look like there'd be 1/8 inch left to get a wrench on, so I took them back. That's why I'm trying to modify my system so I can use zd1's and a push button. Some say use bosch 80034 but the pic looks the same as 60g's, the 80024 looks longer but I'll have to order them in to see. Thanks
 

ISPKI

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"...Timing that is off can cause hard starts, overheating, lack of power, and poor mpg to name a few..." My truck has all of these things :D:D:D:D

Timing is off by ~4 degrees according to my meter, just havent had time to tinker with it. It seems to idle kind of rough, smooths out mid range tho
 

IDIBRONCO

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I don't think that Russ is too far away from you. He may be willing to check/set your timing. If your timing advance isn't working, it may be time for another IP even though you don't want to hear that. Maybe Russ will have a different idea that I don't know about.
 

franklin2

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Usually when people talk about a manual glowplug button, they are eliminating the controller so the wiring ends up being a little more complicated.
Not true. If you have the later type controller mounted on back of the engine, keep the controller and most of the wiring originally like it is. All you have to do is take the white wire off and tape it. Then hook a new wire to where the white wire was originally attached, and run that single wire into the cab to a pushbutton switch. Hook the other side of the pushbutton switch to ground. You are done. The glowplugs will glow as long as you hold the button down. The only thing to go wrong with this setup is the relay in the controller could go bad, which is easily replaced without replacing the whole controller.

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Poorman

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.Timing that is off can cause hard starts, overheating, lack of power, and poor mpg to name a few..." My truck has all of these things
As long as the glow plugs are working it starts fine, just smokes too much on start, engine temp stays good, after I changed out the IP and injectors 13000 miles ago my mileage went from always 10 to a solid 12 with my 12ft. camper and small trailer and the power improved. The only thing that holds it back is the exhaust temperature, I never let it touch 1000, so on big hills I let off and shift down, it's always been like that. It seems like every new tank of fuel burns at a different temperature.
 

ISPKI

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Not true. If you have the later type controller mounted on back of the engine, keep the controller and most of the wiring originally like it is. All you have to do is take the white wire off and tape it. Then hook a new wire to where the white wire was originally attached, and run that single wire into the cab to a pushbutton switch. Hook the other side of the pushbutton switch to ground. You are done. The glowplugs will glow as long as you hold the button down. The only thing to go wrong with this setup is the relay in the controller could go bad, which is easily replaced without replacing the whole controller.

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glow plug controller by D Franklin, on Flickr
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I believe that is exactly what I had posted with the exception of the WTS light. The diagram that I posted, the WTS is connected to the white wire as well so that the light triggers when you hold the switch down.
 

ISPKI

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As long as the glow plugs are working it starts fine, just smokes too much on start, engine temp stays good, after I changed out the IP and injectors 13000 miles ago my mileage went from always 10 to a solid 12 with my 12ft. camper and small trailer and the power improved. The only thing that holds it back is the exhaust temperature, I never let it touch 1000, so on big hills I let off and shift down, it's always been like that. It seems like every new tank of fuel burns at a different temperature.
I Should clarify, my truck, which needs to have it's timing adjusted, actually starts really well but it does smoke on startup and feels as though it doesnt have the power that it should...Not that our trucks have alot to begin with. If you have never checked your timing with a meter, it is probably off. My truck seems to function better than most and it's timing is off by about 4 to 4.5 degrees at 1800rpm(?).
 

Big Bart

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You probably know but for new members reading, these are the recommended specs from this membership. Set the timing at 8.5* BTDC at 2,000 rpm. Many say they prefer 9* BTDC. If using the magnetic harmonic ballancer probe you need to set for a 20* offset because the probe hole is not at TDC. If you use the timing light method you do not use the 20* offset. Also never adjust the IP when running. Tighten the IP before running, loosen, adjust, and retighten with the truck off. Many have ruined a IP or had issues doing it with the engine running.
 

ISPKI

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You probably know but for new members reading, these are the recommended specs from this membership. Set the timing at 8.5* BTDC at 2,000 rpm. Many say they prefer 9* BTDC. If using the magnetic harmonic ballancer probe you need to set for a 20* offset because the probe hole is not at TDC. If you use the timing light method you do not use the 20* offset. Also never adjust the IP when running. Tighten the IP before running, loosen, adjust, and retighten with the truck off. Many have ruined a IP or had issues doing it with the engine running.
Good info, especially because it is such a pain to actually adjust the IP. First thing that came to mind when I was checking my new truck was "Boy this would be great to adjust while measuring" but I recalled the details here on Oilburners and knew better.

Your point on the 20* offset, can you explain that further? My meter had a spring sleeve on the probe to hold it in the hole. What is the offset you are referring to?
 
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