Fresh Reman Engine Ticking

[icanfixall]

So it sounds like you have a dial indicator and a mag base stand. Now your problem will be re zeroing for every cylinder. The deck of the block must be clean so use a razor to cut loose any leftover head gasket material. Any discoloration is going to mean that area has some gasket left on it. Our fingers can feel about 1/2 a thousands so feel for any lumps any place there is a color change in the block deck. The way you are doing the tdc piston measurement is the hard way. I too have done it this way but.. I "was" a machinist and I'm no expert. I just know a little about a lot of things.

 

[riotwarrior]

Gary...hard way of doing things some times is better than the I didnt do it at all way of doing things.

Yes the correct tool makes life easier but swivel mag base should be adequqte.

There can be no mistake if every thing is checked...amd for the price of a set of HG some talc poder and platerscene ...one can freely check all piston to valve clearances...kindq like THICK plastiguage..cut a cross section and measure it.

Just saying...checking saves money and time.

 

[Hydro-idi]

Surprisingly enough, the block deck doesn't need much cleaning. The gaskets peeled right off without leaving much residue. But again, they only had about 10 miles on them lol. Will make sure they are nice and clean before I begin tho. Gary, lets give this a whirl and if it's too difficult for me to use properly, I will take you up on that offer & try out your top notch tools! Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[IDIoit]

screw a buncha feeler gauges, dial indicators, and whoblah.
anvil mic. done.

 

[icanfixall]

screw a buncha feeler gauges, dial indicators, and whoblah.
anvil mic. done.

This would be nice if you had one large enough for this job. Brian... Ever see a Braille micrometer??/

 

[IDIoit]

you dont need it to be big Gary,
this is what i used to check Ian's valves,
can easily check piston protrusion while at TDC.
granted a dial indicator will tell you when its at TDC, but with a little care, so can this!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitutoyo-0-...852459?hash=item2107dd1e2b:g:~fYAAOSw1S9WhF~C

 

[icanfixall]

you dont need it to be big Gary,
this is what i used to check Ian's valves,
can easily check piston protrusion while at TDC.
granted a dial indicator will tell you when its at TDC, but with a little care, so can this!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitutoyo-0-...852459?hash=item2107dd1e2b:g:~fYAAOSw1S9WhF~C

Sadly that mic can't reach the center of the piston. But none the less thats a mighty nice tool to have in the box. All my precision measuring mics are Starrett. I have the stellite tips and the 1 thru 6 mics. I had several Vernier calipers that were 12 inchers and more depth gauges than anyone needs really. At work we needed to measure inside diameters up to 30 inches regularly so I purchased a brand new 32 inch tube mic off ebay for less than 100 bucks. Leaving Edison I had no need for most of those tools so I sold them on ebay and make bank on them easily. Brian ever used a pie tape to measure the outside circumference diameter??? We used them in many turbine blade installations. They tell you what the circumference diameter is down to a thousands of an inch. Really a fascinating tool to use.
I do have a Braile micrometer round here somewhere. At work we always had morning meetings about the days work ahead so I left it laying on the deck where the boss could see it. Of course he wanted to know who left a mic laying around so someone bet him he could not read it. The boss was a true ashat and try as much as he could he was unable to read it. Reason I purchased it was I wanted to give it to those "machinists that missed a dimension. My plan was to say ..."Here, use my mic and see what you get".... I can be a real pain too.....

 

[IDIoit]

never used a pie tape. all of my products are less than 2" so ive never had the need,
all of my inspection equipment is Starrett anvils, od mic's 0.00000-6.000
many many calipers starrett and mitutoyo's as well as digital mics in the shop,
i replace them every year for the certs of calibration.
easier to replace than to get re-cert's
plus it gives me garage tools
i usually pass them down when i get to replentish my garage stash

 

[Hydro-idi]

Ok fellers so here is the scoop. I checked all pistons and they consistently protrude .020 thousandths from the deck (give or take one thousandth). What an awesome tool to use btw. Sooo, these numbers seem to be within spec. I have talked to Brian and the machinist about this issue, and we came to the conclusion that it might be best to recess all intake & exhaust valves another .010 in the head. Yes, doing this will throw the valve recession slightly out of spec, but the machinist nor Brian thinks this will cause any problems aside from a very minor decrease in compression. We feel that by doing this, pistons will no longer hit the valves. We also think that the spring tension might be an issue. Maybe the extra lift with the torque cam is causing interference due to the springs being weak & not being able to shut valves quick enough . And to solve this problem, I ordered the comp 910 springs to install. If I could help it, I would rather not pull this engine out to mill the pistons down.
But I still have a question. Why did the drivers cylinder head with the 4.795 measurement have more valve contact than the passenger head with a thickness of 4.800? Valve recession between heads was fairly consistent.

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[icanfixall]

Ok... So now what are you planning? It would seem the omly two options are change out the cam or mill the pistons. Even though the cam is the only item thats diffenent I'm still not condeming it as to the problem. I'm just thinking something has been missed. Where the valves changed and if so were the tips ground for clearance? Pushrods can't be the issue and the rockers are all the same. The rocker ratio did not change. Only thing that changed for sure is the cam and one head was 5 thousands thinner than the other but valves hit on both heads. So with no A ha find my only way of changing this contact is mill pistons or remove the cam. I believe our pistons chase the valves so they contact when the piston comes up. Not the valve coming down on a piston.
Now when it goes back together are you going to check with clay for clearance? If so you will need a solid lifter and a different spring. Are you going to have the springs checked for open and closed lbs or was that already done. If they are the oem springs how many miles are on them? If you mill pistons and do not check for clearance I suggest replacing the springs for the 910 springs Russ talks about. Remember both our intake and exhaust springs are exactly the same lb spring and thats unusual for an engine. I can give you the oem spring specs if you want them.

 

[TahoeTom]

Both of your engines are 6.9? I assume since you reused the heads and studs. Doesn't make a lot of sense with the protrusion the same on both blocks. I don't know the answer, but would over torquing head studs compress the head gasket more than stock torque? Not saying that's what you did, just wondering as some folks think more torque is better (not for me BTW).

 

[Hydro-idi]

Ok... So now what are you planning? It would seem the omly two options are change out the cam or mill the pistons. Even though the cam is the only item thats diffenent I'm still not condeming it as to the problem. I'm just thinking something has been missed. Where the valves changed and if so were the tips ground for clearance? Pushrods can't be the issue and the rockers are all the same. The rocker ratio did not change. Only thing that changed for sure is the cam and one head was 5 thousands thinner than the other but valves hit on both heads. So with no A ha find my only way of changing this contact is mill pistons or remove the cam. I believe our pistons chase the valves so they contact when the piston comes up. Not the valve coming down on a piston.
Now when it goes back together are you going to check with clay for clearance? If so you will need a solid lifter and a different spring. Are you going to have the springs checked for open and closed lbs or was that already done. If they are the oem springs how many miles are on them? If you mill pistons and do not check for clearance I suggest replacing the springs for the 910 springs Russ talks about. Remember both our intake and exhaust springs are exactly the same lb spring and thats unusual for an engine. I can give you the oem spring specs if you want them.

The valves made deeper impressions with the drivers side head measured at 4.975. 910 springs on the way. You don't feel that recessing valves another 0.010 will solve problem? Because by doing this, they will be that much further away from Pistons when they come on the stroke when valves are in the process of closing.....if that makes sense.

 

[icanfixall]

My best suess is you may get away with recessing the valves another 10 thousands but that means grinding that much off the tip of the valve stem too. Great idea to change the springs for a newer tighter spring. No chance you are getting a spring bound condition either.
So the springs are the original factory springs with unknown miles on them I guess.
Reason one side hit more than the other is the 5 thou difference. It may seem like too little to worry about but. Missing contact by 1 thou is the same as missing by a mile.. Your compressed head gasket is approx 72 thousands thick. So with a 20 protrusion you have about a 50 thousands miss between the head and the piston. I don't have the specs for the open valve miss but as you know. Yours made contact with the above dimensions so 50 separation was not enough. Can you measure what the valve imprints made in the pistons and did the valves check out ok or are they bent. About the measuring the pistons out of the cylinders. If that anvil mic was used on the wrist pin center line instead on the top or the bottom of the cylinder I feel it will be correctly measured. If the pushrods check with no bends my thoughts are no valves got bent but rolling them to check is the only way you will know for sure.

 

[crash-harris]

.001" loose, nobody knows the difference. .001" too tight, everybody knows! ;p

 

[Hydro-idi]

Both of your engines are 6.9? I assume since you reused the heads and studs. Doesn't make a lot of sense with the protrusion the same on both blocks. I don't know the answer, but would over torquing head studs compress the head gasket more than stock torque? Not saying that's what you did, just wondering as some folks think more torque is better (not for me BTW).

Torqued heads to 85 ft lbs.