Ford IDI vs Cummins12v

[dieselviznince]

I know cummins 12v engines can make a lot of power like 800 or so hp and still be driven daily what about ford IDI??? Dont they have that kind of potential or what. My dream truck would be a ford F250 or 350 crew 4x4 with 6inches of lift, and lots of power, If I want this do I have to put a cummins in my ford.

 

[towcat]

This is considered blasphemy by many in the basement, but if you want big HP, you are going to need to go with a 5.9 12v. The tradeoff is everything is going to cost $$$$ when it does need work. One of my customers is finding out that the hard way. IH 6.9/7.3 has the parts cost of a SBC in the diesel world.

 

[dieselviznince]

what does SBC mean. And what is going to cost$$$$ the engine the engine parts when you need new ones or gettin the engine worked on in a ford truck.

 

[bradrob82]

I am guessing SBC means Small Block Chevy... the reason is Small block chevy parts are notorious for being cheap, readily available and everywhere

The $$$$ part is because you have to buy adapters and such to make the ford parts work well with the cummins engine, and when they break, it will be $$$ to replace those parts

 

[dieselviznince]

ok cool I thought SBC meant small block cummins. And I guess when I get to Ill have to go with the cummins powered ford do to Ford IDI dont make much power, even though they have more cubic inches and more pistons. But they are not built as good.

 

[bradrob82]

i wouldnt say that they are not built as good, just built with a different purpose in mind or different application. The 6.9/7.3 is a awesome engine, sure its not going to put out whopping hp/tq numbers, Its a work horse of a engine It has served its purpose well, over the years it has introduced alot of people to diesels in lighter duty trucks, like F-250 & F-350's and this engine was used alot in bigger commercial style vehicles and in some heavy equipment. It was a good building block to what we have now.

 

[Agnem]

.... But they are not built as good.

Perhaps what you meant to say is "It's not the tool I want for the job." Show me a 25 year old 5.9 in a pickup. If longevity is the measure of comparison, your statement is sadly incorrect. Now let me ask you a question. You PM'ed me a while ago, and from that with what I've read of your posts, you seem obsessed with power. What kind of truck do you have now, and what is it that you want or need from your vehicle? Are you actually able to quantify what you want, or are you just a stereotypical young fellow looking to live some kind of dream in a world where power doesn't come at a price? There are lots of engine alternatives that you can stuff into a pickup, many of which offer more power than a Cummins. If you want maximum power, and outstanding bragging rights, your going to have to forget the 5.9, and go fish. The 5.9.... that's what everbody is driving. IDI's, and other engines, are what people who value other parameters besides just power are looking for.

 

[argve]

one of the reasons it is able to produce more power is it's an inline engine and because of the way the power is applied to the crank inlines always produce more torque at lower rpm.

Another thing is the use of the inline pump.

 

[Diesel JD]

Don't forget its a DI turbo engine, so there is a lot more room to stuff boost and fuel into the engine. You can start out with around 25 PSI boost from a stock turbo from what I understand. Forget the bigger turbos...just try stuffing 25lbs boost in an IDI...Unless you make some serious modifications you will lift the heads and/or turn it into a pile of goo. That being said, the 6.9/7.3 are very nicely built engines....a true medium/heavy duty engine just like the Cummins and PSD. It has the piston cooling jets, liquid/liquid oil cooler, and gear driven timing components. But the compression is much too high to go for big time mods, the fuel system is not too great and the lifters and some other parts, obviously some compromises were made. It can have a good long life with a turbo and some light modifications.

 

[caterpillar]

I too used to be a power hungry kid, wanted a diesel to blow the smoke and all that jazz, now that I have actually modified the truck and seen what it can do I know these engines have the power to do anything a cummins can, maybe not as fast or as easily but power is not everything, I'm trying to convince my buddy that just bought a psd this, he wants smoke and power just for braggin rights, then I'll be braggin about the money I saved when his truck blows up haha conclusion: power isn't everything, really look into your options like everyone here is saying

 

[BigRigTech]

I agree with Agnem, power isn't everything - especially when it takes a dump....So does your wallet....Having owned my N/A IDI for 3 months or more now I can honestly say I love it....Yes, it might only be 185HP but it hauls over the road just fine with 2 ton in the bed, it gets good fuel mileage and the more I read about them the more I like them....So friggin reliable and 1/4 the cost to repair of any Cummins engine. I have a 97 PSD under the workbench if I ever decide I want more power but when I get the itch to put it in my rig I start to think about all the wiring, ecm's, turbo and etc - the phase quickly passes when I think of the repair costs for a PSD vs an IDI....I'm not a huge fan of the 5.9, I work on them in what they were designed for - 5 ton trucks and in that world they are less than spectacular. The 444 lasts just as long or longer in the 5 ton world.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

I am not meaning to make this another brand-flaming war; but, where do you guys get the idea that a 6.9/7.3 is cheaper to over-haul than a 5.9 Cummins ??

Before I swapped engines, I got serious about possibly re-building my old 6.9.

I got astronomical quotes on rebuild kits.

I bought a complete running 68,000 mile Cummins, with bell, clutch, and transmission, for about the same money than I was quoted for the parts to build my 6.9.

Starters for the Cummins are cheap and so simple that a kid could rebuild one.

Water pumps can be swapped without removing any other component, no gasket, and only two bolts.

 

[FordGuy100]

Perhaps what you meant to say is "It's not the tool I want for the job." Show me a 25 year old 5.9 in a pickup. If longevity is the measure of comparison, your statement is sadly incorrect. Now let me ask you a question. You PM'ed me a while ago, and from that with what I've read of your posts, you seem obsessed with power. What kind of truck do you have now, and what is it that you want or need from your vehicle? Are you actually able to quantify what you want, or are you just a stereotypical young fellow looking to live some kind of dream in a world where power doesn't come at a price? There are lots of engine alternatives that you can stuff into a pickup, many of which offer more power than a Cummins. If you want maximum power, and outstanding bragging rights, your going to have to forget the 5.9, and go fish. The 5.9.... that's what everbody is driving. IDI's, and other engines, are what people who value other parameters besides just power are looking for.

Agreed. Is this something your really looking into, or is this something your dreaming up (not neccesarily a bad thing). Theres an old saying, speed costs money, how fast do you wanna go?

I look at it like this, on average around here a 12valve will run you about $2500, just for the motor. You would then need motor mounts, and a tranny adaptor if your going to use a ford tranny, or money for a dodge tranny (stay away from dodge auto's, I hear there pretty bad behind the cummins). That could be another $1000+ right there. Then you would need a bunch of misclaneous stuff, probably another $500 worth. These figures might very alot, but if I'm right, that would come out to be $4000. And what would that buy you, a stock 12 vavle equiped ford, and those 12 valves only put out like 200 stock (the later model ones).

 

[FordGuy100]

I am not meaning to make this another brand-flaming war; but, where do you guys get the idea that a 6.9/7.3 is cheaper to over-haul than a 5.9 Cummins ??

Before I swapped engines, I got serious about possibly re-building my old 6.9.

I got astronomical quotes on rebuild kits.

I bought a complete running 68,000 mile Cummins, with bell, clutch, and transmission, for about the same money than I was quoted for the parts to build my 6.9.

Starters for the Cummins are cheap and so simple that a kid could rebuild one.

Water pumps can be swapped without removing any other component, no gasket, and only two bolts.

I was thinking they were talking about rebuilding the IP's. Cause arent they really expensive to rebuild (at least compared to an IDI IP)? They probably last way longer than our IP's though...

 

[Exekiel69]

I was thinking they were talking about rebuilding the IP's. Cause arent they really expensive to rebuild (at least compared to an IDI IP)? They probably last way longer than our IP's though...

You can rebuild a Ve (1st gen) pump Yourself and the cost is about $51 now You can also take it to a rebuild shop and spend $400. The rebuild is about the same on parts for a cummins or an IDI at least in parts.

As Mel said if You only care for the hp #'s then the C is the way to go but the IDI can handle the same loads just not as fast.

I think the IDI is an excellent engine but the C is good to and gives also more mpg and can last longer but this will vary from one owner to another.

I guess the best way to know is buy it use it and talk about it in the C forum.
What ever You decide to use, good luck with it.