Don't hold back, tell me how dumb I am...

[JeffMoss1]

So I'm over it, I've come to terms, you guys don't have to worry about causing me more pain with bad news...just tell me how deep i'm in.

I installed the engine. It was having a hard time turning over as I said in an earlier thread. I thought this might be because when I installed the rod bearings, the engine no longer spun free. I had to use a bar to turn it over to do the others. (this is my first engine rebuild...so I didn't know what to expect.)

So the engine cranked with the starter, it just seemed to struggle. It seemed to not be getting fuel very well, so I cracked the hard lines, cranked and let them leak a bit and closed them off. At that point I almost had her started (coughed a little) but no go. The fuel filter kept on not being full when I check after periods of cranking, so I assumed there was an air leak.

Couldn't find the air leak and after a little while I decided to try cranking again with a little ether just to see if it would start. It did. I can't attest to how badly it ran because I didn't have the exhaust hooked up at the time and it was too loud for me to tell. It ran for about 10 seconds with my brother holding it at about half throttle. He let go of the throttle and it stopped dead. Next try cranking all you could hear was the torque converter bolts slam against the flywheel plate with a big gong and the engine didn't budge.

It's seized up.

The engine is out again and I'm bringing it to my friends garage tonight. When I took off the oil filter...i noticed it was only about a third to a half full. What do you guys think happened? What should I look for when I get the chance tonight? Do you think one or more of those rod bearings was the wrong size or something? They were bran new! Do you think I ruined my crank shaft?

Help

 

[Mr_Roboto]

If you put one of the rod or main caps on backwards it would have seized the bearings because the hole is not centered in the cap exactly.

The motor should have had all the bearings plastigaged, then covered in assembly lube, and the motor cranked until you had oil pressure before you allowed it to start.

We ALL do stupid things. Looking back I can't believe some of the things I've done.

 

[JeffMoss1]

what do you do if the plastigage doesn't turn out right, get new bearings? Should the bran new bearings have been good?

Watching the oil pressure would have been smart.

How do you tell if the rod caps are on correctly?

What do you think the consequences are? New bearings? New crankshaft?

I still have my old 7.3, are the rods and the crankshaft the same?

 

[Michael Fowler]

If you look at the bearings, you will see a little burr on the back side, on one end. That burr fits into a notch--one on the con rod, and one one the cap. The notches should be on the same side. Most Con Rods have a flat side where a number can be stamped near the bolt. All numbers should be on the same side. All Rods should have the same number on the rod and the cap.

NEVER assume that new bearings will fit perfectly..ALWAYS plastigauge them. Plastigauge is cheap. Do it 2 or 3 times until you are sure. Don't forget to check the side clearance, and the ring end gaps. It isn't difficult; just tedious.

If the bearings are right, and covered with assembly lube, and the pistons and rings dipped and covered with oil, the complete assembly should turn easily using a short wrench on the front pulley bolt==like an 8 inch long wrench.

Sit down with the Factory Service Manual, and read the section on General Engine Service. Read it again, and again, until you understand it. Now that you have gotten your hands dirty, it will make more sense than it would have before.

Its all part of the learning experience. Don't feel bad. It didn't cost anything but some time and money--no lives were lost. Keep it in perspective. The only people who never make a mistake are the ones who do nothing ( or are the boss!).

 

[RLDSL]

Did you measure the crank journals before ordering the bearings? It's tedious, but needed. If you ordered the correct bearings, and put them in properly, they will generally pass the plastiguage test and if not, something is either in backwards or there's a little piece of something under the bearing in most cases, if your crank had been previously ground and you put standard bearings in, there's a good chance you spun a bearing, if you put a cap on backwards ( don't know if that
's possible on these engines or not ) something could have spun slowly but once t got cranking caught on something else and came to a screeching halt.
Could be the things was just dry on start.

Once you get everything neasured out with plastiguage, you wantt o make sure everything has a seriousd coating of break in lube, and not that lightweight liquid stuff that all runs intto the pan by the time you fool around for two weeks before droppng the engine in, get some heavier assembly lube like Lubraplate ( IH dealers generally carry it ) that will stay put while getting the oil pressure built up
and use plenty of lube on the pistons / rings while loading.
Now the only thing you can do is tear it down slowly and pay close attention to everything on the way in, you don't want to miss it and do it again

I've built oodles of engines with no problems....and I've pulled a few royal screw ups in the past. Don't feel bad, we all have to learn everything somewhere. It's just sucks learning the hard way

---------Robert

 

[icanfixall]

About the other rods and crank being the same I feel your ok there. The only differance in rods are the turbo rods have a larger wrist pin. I can give you numbers if needed. All 6.9 and 7.3 cranks are the same. The only differance is when the rods or mains have been ground. Even then any crank will fit any block just as long as its an IDI. The rods all have marks on the caps that must line up to the marks on the rods. Also they only fit the crank one way. You need to look at a rod and see the big end. One side is machined flat with very little chamfer. Thats the side that faces to other rod on the crank journel. The other side has a large chamfer and that side faces the crank web. Otherwise things get really tight. There is a slight offset to every rod so they fit properly on the crank. As for the oil filter being ahlf mt I don't have any thoughts on that. What was the torque used to tighten up the rods bolts? Just don't get upset. Things happen. I have herd some things about the good old days while working in a Shell gas station. Some guy changed oil in a customers car and didn't put any oil in it. Sent the guy down the road and told him thats the new oil causing that noise. It will go away in a little while..... It sure did..... Just that this is your first motor means you have something to learn. Nobody here will laugh at you. We may laugh wil you though. Read some of my poroblems I have had this last year. Nobody could feel worse about my problems than me. I sometimes feel like I'm cursed and need a priest......

 

[Agnem]

Jeff, I for one am not going to tell you how stupid you were, because that very well could have been me. I've never rebuilt an engine either, so you're living out my fears for me. I thought I seized up the Moosestang motor from letting it sit too long (it was locked up tight), but it turned out I had some how *****'ed mounting the transmission. All I had to do to fix it was unbolt it and bolt it back on. I never will know what I did or how it happened. All I know is I dumped about 6 cans of PM Blaster down the cylinders until I figured that one out. I was very much the dummy. Best of luck to you, and you'll be a ton smarter than I when your done.

 

[tonkadoctor]

We ALL do stupid things. Looking back I can't believe some of the things I've done.

I can't beleive I lived through some of the stupid stuff I did.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

I can't beleive I lived through some of the stupid stuff I did.

Yea me too. I dropped a Dana 60 on my hand. One of my fingertips is shaped real funny now.

And back when I worked in a shop, the lifts were right at forehead height. I have some sort of vision issue, I don't see things right above my eyeline. Almost knocked myself out a couple times.

 

[sle2115]

You did use assembly lube, didn't you?

As you bolt things up, it will get tight. Pistons should be oiled (I NEVER use assembly lube on them, just motor oil. All bearings get assembly lube as well as filling the oil pump for a quick prime of oil. Plastigage is a good idea, and will tell you if something is WAY out, like a .010 oversize bearing. As was said, it is cheap as well.

Good luck, they are all learning experiences. I have probably tore down, machined and put at least 3 or 400 engines together. Everyone was different and every one seemed to have it's own personality...

 

[riotwarrior]

One thing I see that has not been touched is ring depth in the pistons.

I ran into this one when I had a V6 gasser I did and the the pistons seemed tight going in but the gaps where fine.

Fired up the engine ran a few minutes seized tight as a ducks ****!

Tore it down and found out the rings where incorrect and were too deep to fit correctly into the ring groove on the new pistons.

If you used old Pistons, where the ring grooves thoroughly cleared of old carbon and soot? if not then that may have caused problems too.

Make sure you check the ring depth in the ring groove and be sure the grooves are cleaned properly.

Just my 2cents.

 

[69oiler]

if you don't want to buy new bearings again, the old bearings showed next to no wear on them when i plastigaged them.

another thing you can do is pre fill the oil filter before you install it.

 

[ttman4]

I'll go so far as saying "I guarantee non of us here was born knowing how to ride a bicycle, It came to us after lots of scraped knees, purple bruises, & Band-aids!!"

I was going to school & had about 2 quarters to rub together, chasing every gal on campus, & thought I knew everything. First engine I did was my Chev 250 6cyl gasser...tore it down threw rod caps one way, rods & pistons another pile, bolts here & there. Got her back together about 2 weeks later about 10PM one night. Hit starter & ......
Well battery must be down, so me & friend pulled that thing round & round & up one road & down another till about 3AM. Everytime I let clutch out that thing just hunkered up, slid tires & fishtailed....put lots of flat places on my tires that night.
Short of the story, It was locked up. I swapped rod caps here, there, everywhere, even pulled head & swapped couple pistons finally before I got it to turn over.
Those Chev 250 6cyl engines are super tough!!!! I drove that thing till I got out of school...it knocked, rattled, slobbered oil...but managed not to blow up for 2 years.


Other good one...still in school. I helped a friend work on his 2 barrel carb. Pulled top off, little steel ball BB size fell down intake. I looked at him, he looked at me, I told him "don't worry about it, small as that was it'll go on through, besides that I don't see any need for it anyway"
It took out his piston & did in the head.....we ain't friends no-mo!

 

[Andylad13]

i jacked up a 4.6 engine and lifted the front end of the truck by the intake manifold! never cracked it, but learned to check for clearances after that one. i guess fords finger design was good for something...strength!

good luck, i hate going back to re do stuff. i hope you dont break any tools or body parts.

 

[JeffMoss1]

thanks a lot for the kind words guys...

I'm exhausted.

Turns out a rod bearing spun. The rest look like they're fine...some very small scuff marks. I bought the plastigage already i'm gonna get to work tomorrow. I think i'll just buy new bearings...i don't think they were too expensive.

sle2115 yes i used 30wt oil...is that what you'd use?

Riot warrior...i cleaned all the carbon out of the grooves. I actually have the tool to do it with...believe it or not.

I've inspected the caps and it looks like they're all on straight, but not matched up to their correct rods. Main bearings are good though. I'm gonna go with that being the problem and I'm gonna try and prime the oil system this time.

I'll post a pic of it tomorrow when I'm conscious again. I've been working for like 24 hours straight.

Thanks again guys