Cooling issues!!!! Cannot chase this one down!!!

[OLDBULL8]

I would remove the lower hose and the connection neck at the block, check for debris. Lower hose should have a spring in it to keep it from collapsing.

 

[fordf350man]

I am curious to see what the problem is. Remember they hold 8 gallons of coolant. That is allot of room for air in the system. When you find it please post it on here, I am sure you were going to anyway.

 

[SDbernhardt]

Yeah sure will got a new champion 4 core radiator on the way... Gonna completely flush system today and put in two new temp guages and see what I'm getting for readings between top and bottom of motor... I really am thinking its a permatex clog judging by the pieces ive seen floating by... Just getting them out is the fun part

 

[OLDBULL8]

On a cold engine start the water pump gets it's coolant thru the bypass port, (see pic), the t'stat copper slug is retracted and does not block off the bypass port. When coolant begins to heat the ( pass side head to 120*) the t'stat begins to open, as the heat rises the t'stat copper slug extends and close's off the bypass port, bypass port is the hole in the center where the t'stat mounts (see pic), all the coolant then flows thru the t'stat (at 195*) the t'stat should be wide open. Pic of the correct Motorcraft or IH t'stat.

 

[Fixnstuff]

Yeah sure will got a new champion 4 core radiator on the way... Gonna completely flush system today and put in two new temp guages and see what I'm getting for readings between top and bottom of motor... I really am thinking its a permatex clog judging by the pieces ive seen floating by... Just getting them out is the fun part

I drained my block 2 days ago for flush and coolant, (WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES! it sprays all over the place- on mine the passenger side was worse- maybe a bit different than yours). I removed the thermostat yesterday - looks like it could have been (likely) the original, rubber was deteriorated - other work under the hood also. I just brought the thermostat housing in and it's soaking in vinegar in my bathroom sink to remove some rust, especially concerned about where the steel ball is and under the hose was very rusty. I'll neutralize the acid with baking soda and rinse clean.

I'd like to borrow your topic thread for a few related questions.

 

[SDbernhardt]

Yeah I found that out myself... Did a complete flush today.. Got a few real good chunks of permatex outta the system... Got the junk tstat out and ran the truck with no tstat everything worked as it should no overheating or pressure issues... Also found out that both of my temp guages were bad off ... Waiting for new champion radiator to show up and get everything back together for a final test... Oh and another note the ball in the tstat housing was rusted in place... Got it broke loose and functioning properly

 

[Fixnstuff]

I have a few related questions:

I am not going to mess around with 40-60 gallons of distilled water flushes, (per ***** instructions and variants of same). That sounds quite a bit insane to me, more that I have a very low medical disability income and not going to spend that much on water! So here is what I plan:

1) I am going to blast out (rinse) the cooling system with a high pressure nozzle on a garden hose a few times- hoping that will work initially. I'll leave the block drain plugs out and disconnect the lower radiator hose and hope that will get most of any rust or crud out of the block - increase water volume to full garden hose - maybe reinstall drain plugs and let it go out from the water pump. Heater hoses are new so I'll go through both of those, into the head and into the pump as well as where I removed the thermostat- ponding coolant in that location.

The tap water here is bad with minerals, some iron from old rusted galvanized pipes and
bad chlorine (or chlorides) taste but that's what I am going to do. I'll let the water run for awhile first so it should be clear of rust at least.

THEN I'll try to blow the residual water out as best I can with compressed air.

Then I'll flush the system with filtered water from a 2-1/2 gallon Brita Water filter. A $7. filter is effective for about 80 gallons (label says 40). I am thinking that this will be good enough before I add coolant and distilled water.
What do you think about this plan so far?

I have these questions:
But wait. Lights flickered here- we've had some significant rain in the region with some power outages, branches and trees sometimes fall (water saturated hillsides- conifers don't have deep roots) across power lines even without much wind so I'll post this now until I'm more confident that the power isn't going to go out.

 

[riotwarrior]

Flush with tap water drain block via plugs blow out heater core best ya can...add distilled and coolant...bobs yer uncle

JM2CW


filtered water sounds pricy...but if so incline two water cooler bottles of reverse osmozis water should be ok

 

[OLDBULL8]

Any grocery store sells steam distilled water in the 2 gallon jugs, pretty cheap, why ruin a Brita filter, there not cheap. And shake the t'stat neck to hear that the ball rattles. That ball is a must have, acts like a check valve, open to let air bleed, then closes when liquid hits it. If the ball isn't there then coolant will by pass the t'stat continually, then the t'stat can't do it's job right.

 

[Fixnstuff]

... Waiting for new champion radiator to show up and get everything back together for a final test... Oh and another note the ball in the tstat housing was rusted in place... Got it broke loose and functioning properly

Some of the tubes in your old radiator have probably captured some of the small particles of Permatex and might be plugged - wherever it came from obviously someone used too much.

Re: the t-stat housing and the steel ball, the ball looked OK in mine- it moved side to side when I probed it with a small screwdriver but it really wasn't so much OK. I didn't hear it rattle when I shook it vertically. I soaked the whole thing in vinegar for a couple of hours, (acid formed bubbles all around it reacting in part with the iron oxides) - shaking it once in awhile and and using a brass wire brush I got some rust scale off of it. After it was rinsed good I could hear the ball when I shook it vertically so there was probably some rust build-up behind it. Other rust removing products will probably work better and faster than vinegar.

I did not remove the oil and grease from it first (my mistake - I used the bathroom sink).. The vinegar softened up the oil and grease and made a big mess in the sink. With the drain stopper closed I sprayed it with engine de-greaser right in the sink, including big smears of grease in the sink, rinsed it with water while filling the sink too- then used liquid dish soap to break up the oil film on top of the water (stirred it up) and after I drained it the drain is working much better than it was before. It's probably been clogged from washing my greasy hands in it so often - so anyway, engine de-greaser works very well to clear up the drain!

I bought a new upper radiator hose yesterday at Autozone and they have small packets of lubricant for hose fittings to slide the hoses onto the fittings- a very good idea! My old hose was stuck with rust to the t-stat housing and lots of rust scale came out as I broke the hose loose with a a large screwdriver- with lubricant that probably won't happen again.

 

[Fixnstuff]

Any grocery store sells steam distilled water in the 2 gallon jugs, pretty cheap, why ruin a Brita filter, there not cheap. And shake the t'stat neck to hear that the ball rattles. That ball is a must have, acts like a check valve, open to let air bleed, then closes when liquid hits it. If the ball isn't there then coolant will by pass the t'stat continually, then the t'stat can't do it's job right.

Thanks OLDBULL8. After a high sales tax distilled water here is $0.95/gal. (2 gallon container - little difference) so that is $6.68 per 7 gallons for a single flush, x 5 or so is over $33.00 I've really had to pinch pennies here (low disability income) to afford to fix my truck and I am buying the best parts and doing the best work I can do, paying much attention to every detail. I am a perfectionist who seeks machinist precision no matter what I am working on, even when working with wood- it's just a habit.

That being said, why would I skimp on water? Technically, distilled water is the best to use for the flushes so aside from the initial flush with tap water/pressure nozzle, that's what I'll have to use. - So the cost of this coolant flush with Fleet Charge SCA new thermostat, new upper rad. hose + lubricant for the hose fittings plus distilled water is over $140. More than I had planned for but that's the way it goes to do the best job.

The people who always say that these IDIs are so easy to work on must have forgotten about coolant flush and thermostat change, not hard work but it is surprisingly labor-time intensive to do it right.

 

[Fixnstuff]

NOTE: I discovered something very important that is not mentioned in riotwarrior's otherwise excellent Thermostat Replacement 101 tech article. I think it needs to be added to that article. He may have overlooked this because his (1992?) set-up is a bit different than my 87 but probably as important on his truck as well.

I'll be back later to describe this in detail with a couple of photos - it's not raining now and I need to go out and get some work done on my truck!!

 

[Fixnstuff]

Just taking a break right now, but check this out! I just posted this new topic which relates to this job I'm doing AND a lot of other work I intend to do on the truck:
Best Tool Find of the Year (for me) $10. at Home Depot and elsewhere.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/sh...-Year-(for-me)-10-at-Home-Depot-and-elsewhere

Break is over- back outside before it gets too dark

 

[OLDBULL8]

Thanks OLDBULL8. After a high sales tax distilled water here is $0.95/gal. (2 gallon container - little difference) so that is $6.68 per 7 gallons for a single flush, x 5 or so is over $33.00

I didn't mean to use that as a flush, but use that as a final fill.

 

[Fixnstuff]

I didn't mean to use that as a flush, but use that as a final fill.

Ha-ha-ha! I guess I'll be drinking distilled water for awhile... (which I like because it's pure water and there is a difference that I can feel - but some say it will leach out minerals from the body- likely true if you drink it frequently) It might leach out bad stuff too though.

I bought 14 gallons of distilled water last night just to get started with flushes today and was planning to buy more today.

I was going by a frequently discussed method at FTE forums, called '*****'s flush and fill', or something like that.

Whoever ***** was, he knew a lot about coolants back in those days (10-15 years ago). The main discussion was in a Power Stroke Forum. There was even a seminar in San Francisco where people brought their trucks somewhere to learn how to do this. One guy who posted about that seminar (if I remember correctly) mentioned starting with 40 gallons of distilled water with a child's plastic wading pool from Walmart for a drain pan, then he had to send someone out to buy 16 more gallons of distilled water before he was finished. That would be 8 flushes with distilled water, also wasting fuel and being soaking wet for an entire day.

I've always thought that method was crazy and I mentioned that in an earlier post in this thread. After reading your comment here I was thinking: The cooling system in a big cast iron IDI diesel is obviously not a sterile laboratory for medical research or a sterile surgery room for doing brain transplants.

However, my technical mind had overtaken my practical and common sense mind as I thought:

Very technically in terms of chemistry, distilled water will likely work a little bit better for a final clear flush, help remove some small amount of lingering minerals or a little bit of chemical residue from a chemical radiator flush but now today, after your comment I realize again it's a cast iron diesel engine, not a sterile biochemistry lab.

So, I've opened a jug of distilled water and on my second cup I'll be in the kitchen making a pot of coffee with it. That should be good coffee.

I really do have something very important to add to riotwarrior's tech instructions on replacing a thermostat- it's important enough to prevent potential unwanted damage that some people with a different year of vehicle might experience.

I'll have to get to that later because again it is not raining right now and I need to get some more work done on my truck first. I bit off a lot to chew on this job, with this weather. I will post the information here later though, with a photo or two and send a PM to riotwarrior about it.