Black dawg
Registered User
If that return fitting on the top of the pump is blocked, or return blocked it wont deliver fuel.
Before I buy injection pump....
- Thread starter onetonjohn
- Start date
Linctex
Registered User
Usually they WILL start, though . . . just run 10-15 seconds . . & then die
onetonjohn
Full Access Member
I'm going to check the fuel shutoff solenoid when I get some time this week. I'll keep you updated.
Black dawg
Registered User
If the fitting is truly blocked, they wont run.....
onetonjohn
Full Access Member
I did some checking of the fuel shutoff solenoid and found that touching the connector to the tab I hear a click. BUT when I disconnected the connector, and use a test light from positive to the tab - no click. It's raining, so I didn't get the voltage drop across the light, but just curious if this should have worked too? When it stops raining I'll get voltage drop across test light. It's basic type with light bulb (not led) inside. Does anyone know minimum voltage is needed to trip the solenoid?
Black dawg
Registered User
9
steve phillips
Full Access Member
onetonjohn, here are just some random thoughts on idi fuel system troubleshooting, i hope something in here helps 1] does your truck make any smoke when your cranking it, no smoke no fuel 2] are you sure you have all working glow plugs? 3] before you start your truck, after shutting off, have you removed fuel filter to see if it full of fuel 4] have you checked rubber line at suction side of fuel pump or olives on steel line to filter 5] using a can of fuel feeding lift pump will help in troubleshooting fuel system 6] you can easily prime system without cranking engine excessively, ask how if you want. are your sure batteries and starter are good, load test and current draw on starter while cranking preferrably. I hope this helps
onetonjohn
Full Access Member
Some good news, with some unanswered questions. I was able to start the truck today. Ran well once started but hard start. I did two additional things.
Cracked all eight injector lines (not just three).
Pulled the fitting with the spring loaded check ball on the return line from the injection pump. Blew it out with air.
Tried restarting. Had fuel to injectors in about 4 cranks. Tightened up the lines, then had multiple start/die starts. Seemed like if the glow plugs activated, it would fire then die. Otherwise it would not fire. Not clear which of the above things did the trick. Could use some input here for future reference. I'll start it again tomorrow and see if there is still hard start, or if it's back to normal.
Cracked all eight injector lines (not just three).
Pulled the fitting with the spring loaded check ball on the return line from the injection pump. Blew it out with air.
Tried restarting. Had fuel to injectors in about 4 cranks. Tightened up the lines, then had multiple start/die starts. Seemed like if the glow plugs activated, it would fire then die. Otherwise it would not fire. Not clear which of the above things did the trick. Could use some input here for future reference. I'll start it again tomorrow and see if there is still hard start, or if it's back to normal.
onetonjohn
Full Access Member
Fired right up today. No air intrusion symptoms. Yeah!
Black dawg
Registered User
Have you had the lid off of the pump? I have seen that return fitting blocked by rust a few times. Typically the gov. components will get rusty from moisture in fuel and lack of use.
BeastMaster
Full Access Member
Congratulations on your successful cure and sharing your experience. I haven't been down your road yet, but I am grateful for the maps you left me. Most of the problems I have had are electrical. The PO of my van took very good care of it, saw to it's fluids and maintenance, for which I am very grateful.
I guess when you discovered air in your injection lines, which cleared when you cracked the lines, knowing you had not run out of fuel and sucked a dry tank, that was a giveaway you had air intrusion...as how else did that air get into your injection lines?
On my van, I have an electric Carter pump mounted on the main frame rail under the van. Gravitically about the same level as the fuel tank. The fuel is then piped upward 3 feet or so to the fuel filter assembly, from there to the injection pump. Now, hopefully, I can maintain 3-5 psi Positive pressure at all times through the filter, except for when the van is completely shut down, and a fuel air intrusion could allow the fuel in the line to drain back to the fuel tank. The hope is that a leak will call attention to itself by evidence of leaked fuel.
It's my understanding ( and I ask you guys for confirmation ) that the IP has an internal pressure regulator which diverts overpressure fuel ( along with any "air burps" ) to the fuel return line to the tank .
It appears to me that the proper elevation of an electric fuel pump, along with the ability of an electric fuel pump to maintain a positive fuel pressure at the IP inlet when the engine is not running, should almost guarantee the IP never sucks air, as well as establishment of liquid fuel pressure can be verified before attempting to start the engine.
Do any of you guys know of a decent fuel pressure sensor for this kind of thing? I do not care about it's electronic interface. I can do that. But what concerns me is chemical, thermal, and mechanical robustness. I can order some "lab" type sensors but I think they are far too delicate for the environment under the hood, thermal, vibration, and diesel fuel, which may have some metallurgical incompatibilities.
I guess when you discovered air in your injection lines, which cleared when you cracked the lines, knowing you had not run out of fuel and sucked a dry tank, that was a giveaway you had air intrusion...as how else did that air get into your injection lines?
On my van, I have an electric Carter pump mounted on the main frame rail under the van. Gravitically about the same level as the fuel tank. The fuel is then piped upward 3 feet or so to the fuel filter assembly, from there to the injection pump. Now, hopefully, I can maintain 3-5 psi Positive pressure at all times through the filter, except for when the van is completely shut down, and a fuel air intrusion could allow the fuel in the line to drain back to the fuel tank. The hope is that a leak will call attention to itself by evidence of leaked fuel.
It's my understanding ( and I ask you guys for confirmation ) that the IP has an internal pressure regulator which diverts overpressure fuel ( along with any "air burps" ) to the fuel return line to the tank .
It appears to me that the proper elevation of an electric fuel pump, along with the ability of an electric fuel pump to maintain a positive fuel pressure at the IP inlet when the engine is not running, should almost guarantee the IP never sucks air, as well as establishment of liquid fuel pressure can be verified before attempting to start the engine.
Do any of you guys know of a decent fuel pressure sensor for this kind of thing? I do not care about it's electronic interface. I can do that. But what concerns me is chemical, thermal, and mechanical robustness. I can order some "lab" type sensors but I think they are far too delicate for the environment under the hood, thermal, vibration, and diesel fuel, which may have some metallurgical incompatibilities.
IDIBRONCO
IDIBRONCO
I have an Auto Meter fuel pressure gauge. It's been working fine for me for the last few months.
Isspro makes excellent gauges and sensors
onetonjohn
Full Access Member
Some bad news. I have started the truck a few times since I got it running again without issue - maybe cranking quick start and die a couple times. Tonight I figured I better drive it and it won't even do the quick start and die. Just cranking. I guess I need to get good at finding air intrusion points. I have redone return lines and seals around injectors when I did injection pump and injectors 7 or so years ago. I have never done the hard line "olives". There was clear cracking on the return line rubber seal from injection pump.
I'm thinking replace all the "olives". Not sure where to get them, but presuming google search will turn something up. Is there brand that's good or a good source? Second, I suppose I should use the "clear fuel line" trick. Where do you get it? Does it have to be diesel rated? I've got some Pyrex tubes for this kinda thing, but I think they are not thin enough for return line. Suggestions here and maybe some pictures of your setup would be helpful. Supposed to be nice this weekend, so I'll hopefully get to the bottom of it. I'm still running mechanical fuel pump. Is anyone else, or does everyone go electric. I'd like my truck to be EMP proof. I may have a tin foil hat in the closet. I have in my mind that mechanical fuel pump gets me this and electrical fuel pump will fail but don't really have any data to back that up.
Lastly how long should I expect to be able to let the truck sit before having this type of problem. I normally only drive it when I need to haul something - which isn't all that often.
Found this:
www.oilburners.net
But Russ and Mel aren't sources anymore.
I'm thinking replace all the "olives". Not sure where to get them, but presuming google search will turn something up. Is there brand that's good or a good source? Second, I suppose I should use the "clear fuel line" trick. Where do you get it? Does it have to be diesel rated? I've got some Pyrex tubes for this kinda thing, but I think they are not thin enough for return line. Suggestions here and maybe some pictures of your setup would be helpful. Supposed to be nice this weekend, so I'll hopefully get to the bottom of it. I'm still running mechanical fuel pump. Is anyone else, or does everyone go electric. I'd like my truck to be EMP proof. I may have a tin foil hat in the closet. I have in my mind that mechanical fuel pump gets me this and electrical fuel pump will fail but don't really have any data to back that up.
Lastly how long should I expect to be able to let the truck sit before having this type of problem. I normally only drive it when I need to haul something - which isn't all that often.
Found this:
Where to get the fuel line olives?
I have searched through several threads and can not find where to get the olive. I am having alot of air intrusion and I remember when I did my ip one of the olives had a nick in it and I didnt think anything of it, but now I sure do lol. I just want to replace them so I can eliminate that...
www.oilburners.net
But Russ and Mel aren't sources anymore.
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