Are you guys 100% sure.....

[Dsl_Dog_Treat]

I'll second what Russ said. It's far easier and less time consuming to leave the housing bolted down. It's 4 less bolts to deal with an no worry of screwing up the cam to ip gear alignment.

 

[icanfixall]

I'm really surprised some members here are saying "do it".. Heres what you are missing. When the gear, pump and housing come off as one piece what really makes you think your going to get it gear timed correctly. that mark you made on the gear housing and gear. Nope, thats not enough. The problem is you have no possible way to SEE the actuall gear timing marks when the complete cluster mess is reset to the top of the block. NO MATTER WHAT MARKS YOU HAVE MADE. Its true that the pump can only attach to the drive gear on way. Now looking at the zero mark on the timing tab at the dampner what makes you think your at top dead cente number on cylinder. Remember the cam and injection pump gear turns half as much as the crank turns. So you could be 180 degrees off tdc. Caution. These engines do run but they run horribliy at 180 degrees out of time. The Dog Catcher knows this first hand. We talked one nite bout a customers truck that just had a pump installed by a garage that had no clue what they were doing. Look at the pic I have and see where the pump gear drive pin and bolts are. Thats correct gear timing. Now if you had the mess of a gear out of time. what you can do is makes sure your gears look very close to this with the drive pin in that location. The gear must be off the pump and out of the housing. Scribe a line from the top of the gear to the bottom of the gear thru the timing mark "Y". Now set the gear back in the front cover hopeing you have it lined up correctly. By useing a square you can place that on top of the timing gear cover and see if that scribed line in prefectly straight up and down. You will know if its off a tooth or two. Now if al is done corrctly you are correctly gear timed. Now install the gear cover and then the pump and then time the engine when its running. The problem is many give advise with no experiance. Saying I see no reason whay you can't is its own issue. We really can know for sure where top dead center is because we can't "see" the piston. We and myself are believeing the timing tab and line on the dampner to be telling me no lies. I realize the dampner can spin the weight but thats not a common thing really. Removing the passenger side valve cover will tell you that number one is on compression stroke but not when its tdc. Only having the head off and using a piston height gauge or degreeing the cam with a wheel and dial indicater tells you exact tdc. We are not that racey to need that.

 

[tbirdfiend281]

So your going to take away from all this to just do the up with the gear left on the truck, right?

 

[jayro88]

Just did the IP on my e250. I left the gear and just pulled the pump out the back. Yes, it was kind of a pain. The hardest thing about getting it out was getting the lines on the back of the IP to clear the intake. Since you don't have the room to angle the pump a lot (due to the dash) I disconnected as many lines as I could from the back of the pump to get more play in the lines. Then with a little elbow grease it came right out. Installation was easier than taking it out. It's not an overly difficult job on a van, just understand that it is gonna take longer than a truck and give yourself time.

I also removed the 2 nuts that held the fuel filter head bracket so I could move it off to the side for more room.

 

[junk]

I pull pumps the way everyone is suggesting. Just to get that out there.

For philosophical discussion isn't what the guy suggests very similar to pulling a distributor on a gasser? I never put them to #1 Tdc. I mark the rotor location to the housing. I also may mark the housing to the intake. I then pull up the distributor and mark the rotor location now as it changes because of the helical drive gear. In my head it's a very similar scenario. Philosophically talking I don't see why it couldn't work. Now if you turn over the engine your back to square one and made a big project for yourself.

Flame away.

 

[NO_SPRK]

sure go ahead and pull it if you want to remove the whole front of the engine. (accessories.. water pump. timing cover)

your flying blind when you remove the IP with the cover.

 

[cpdenton]

I have a cam gear laying out in my parts pile. I went and counted 106 teeth on that gear. It would be easier to hit one of the 20 or so teeth on a traditional distributor, than it would to hit the exact tooth on the gears we have. Miss a tooth and you will be about 3.4 degrees off in one direction or the other. That is a lot of adjustment to lose. Worst part is, you wouldn't really know it without trying to set the timing. Miss it and you are back to square one.

 

[NTOLERANCE]

Not to worry, i manned up and pulled it out the back. I did move the filter head, tweaked a few lines.... Took less than an hour.

Now getting it back in and lined up......weeeeellllllll...

 

[NTOLERANCE]

And btw, that pump about spins free......no resistance at all.....unlike the used pump i got off ebay for $45

 

[fordf350man]

i get what everyone is saying about getting the gear on wrong but what i dont get is how everyone thinks that even if you mark it it can be off, if you make a mark like done in the video that i posted and then remove the pump, when you go to install it if that mark doesnt line up then it is off, if the mark does line up then its right

 

[yARIC008]

I pulled my pump with the housing one time. Seemed to work out... only problem i had was getting the housing to seal up properly on the front cover. It still leaks a tiny bit but it's so crudded up with dirt and oil now that it has pretty well sealed itself off, lol

The main problem with doing it this way is that once you get it so far down you can no longer see the gear marks and it could easily get off one tooth, or so it would seem..

 

[jayro88]

Now getting it back in and lined up......weeeeellllllll...

I was thinking that it would be a bear to get back in too, but the install went much easier than removing it. Toughest part again was getting the injector lines on the back of the pump past the intake. Also, be carefull which lines you leave loose on the back of the pump since you can't get to all of them with it installed.

 

[cpdenton]

So, here is the reason it would seem to me. The hole you can see the bolts through is about 2.25 inches. That is about 58 millimeters. Give or take. I didn't get the calipers out. That makes the circumference of the hole about 183 millimeters. At 106 teeth on the gear, that makes each tooth only 1.71 millimeters away from the marked location and each additional possible install location. That is a very small tolerances there.

I would bet that many many people have done it that way, (taking the housing off) and had good results, but a first timer would likely have problems.

 

[tbirdfiend281]

It just behooves someone doing it to not pull the housing off, why add the potential risk?? Why would anyone argue to do it that way? No one here has said its impossible merely that it just doenst make good sense to do it that way. Its like wrapping your arm around your head to scratch your nose, sure you can do it, but why would you?

I see so much stacked against pulling the housing, so, lets here it for those who think its a better idea, what is the positives for doing it that way? Hmm? I know this kid will never do it that way unless I have a timing issue in the front cover.

 

[fordf350man]

reason for me is i dont have a gear cover with a tach sensor, i now have bought one from a junk yard and want to put it on so i can have a tach, so i have to remove the gear cover, now what i am thinking of **** is measure center point on the gear cover, both of them, then mark the timing gear to the center mark on the gear cover then transfer it over, also what i am thinking is if i remove the pump first, then remove the gear cover and dont let the gear come off with the cover the it should be ok, with the pump off there is no reason the gear would come up with the cover it should just sit there, if you remove the gear with the pump then i can see the issue of timing being off if its not put back on in the right location

It just behooves someone doing it to not pull the housing off, why add the potential risk?? Why would anyone argue to do it that way? No one here has said its impossible merely that it just doenst make good sense to do it that way. Its like wrapping your arm around your head to scratch your nose, sure you can do it, but why would you?

I see so much stacked against pulling the housing, so, lets here it for those who think its a better idea, what is the positives for doing it that way? Hmm? I know this kid will never do it that way unless I have a timing issue in the front cover.