99% sure it's the booster. Thoughts?

[Cant Write]

So the MC was leaking which put fluid in the booster and took that out as well?

 

[Cubey]

So the MC was leaking which put fluid in the booster and took that out as well?

I don't know that the booster is actually bad, but on this van, you have to unhook a brake line to take the master cylinder with off the booster. The RV wasn't that way. but on this one, the line hits the radiator just enough when trying to remove it, so you can't just slide it off of the studs on the booster.

The RV with it's different style master cylinder (all metal reservoir type with metal lid) didn't have that problem. So, I'm going to just replace the booster to save a lot of hassle.

Thinking about buying a special $12 tool for checking/setting the booster push rod length, and paying $15 for Amazon prime to get it faster, before I put it back together with the new booster. Otherwise I'll be bleeding the brakes every time I take off the master cylinder to adjust the booster, if needed.

So even in the 80s, Ford was doing some bad design choices, making things harder to fix.

Edit: I got a week of prime for $2. So I opted for that and ordered the tool. It'll be delivered tomorrow, but I can't get it until Monday because the mail room out here isn't open Sat/Sun/Wed. I'll probably be able to get a ride to pick it up on Monday. Although I'll see if I can get the old scooter running, so maybe I'll be able to go myself.

 

[Cubey]

Oh, of course. The only 9/16" deep socket I have with me is the ancient harbor freight one that split 13 years ago. I did actually finally find the entire set with the original caddy. The receipt is probably long gone (bought 15+ years ago) but maybe I can get them to honor the lifetime warranty on it.

But in the meantime, I can't remove the old booster.

I looked on Amazon and found a 9/16, 3/8 drive deep impact socket for $4.01 with tax, and it'll be delivered tomorrow. But again, I won't have it until Monday.

Trying to get the old scooter going today instead. The new battery I bought in November was dead as heck from still just sitting in the box. It might be bad. These little batteries are pretty fragile and don't last very long. I think it's under the extended holiday return window though, so I might be able to return it still, if the HFT 0.5A float charger can't get it back to holding a charge well. It wasn't that dead when I got it, before I checked the voltage after I got it.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

The new battery I bought in November was dead as heck from still just sitting in the box. It might be bad. These little batteries are pretty fragile and don't last very long.

I don't know what type of battery this uses, but, with ATVs, I've had good luck with the (relatively) cheap AGMs on Ebay and Amazon. I can usually get 3-5 years out of one. I've only had one bad one. It stopped holding a charge after I had it for a month. The seller sent me another one for free with no questions asked so I don't hesitate to buy from him again.

 

[Cubey]

I don't know what type of battery this uses, but, with ATVs, I've had good luck with the (relatively) cheap AGMs on Ebay and Amazon. I can usually get 3-5 years out of one. I've only had one bad one. It stopped holding a charge after I had it for a month. The seller sent me another one for free with no questions asked so I don't hesitate to buy from him again.

It uses 4L-BS, 12v 3ah AGM. About $20-25 online. Walmart sells it one in their brand, but it's $49. They don't really have any warranty beyond return windows, regardless of where you buy one.

The first one I bought in 2020 was bad out of the box, returned and refunded. This battery is acting like that one did.

The second one was good and lasted maybe 2 years at most.

I'll leave the battery float charger on it overnight since it's automatic.

I probably need pull the carburetor off and clean it, since it's been sitting for a long time. I think I probably left gas in the carburetor, so yeah. I'll check that tomorrow, if it still won't fire up in the morning.

But it's also a crap battery. And there's no kick starter on this model, so the battery is required.

 

[Cubey]

My 9/16" deep socket is the one that's cracked/split. Someone lent me one, so I was able to swap out the booster. I also ordered one (deep impact) for $4 on Amazon before hand.

The foam seals on the old booster crumbled when I took off the plastic cone piece for a look.

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The new one doesn't use/need the cone piece. Good thing, since the plastic was also breaking to bits.

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I'll have the booster adjustment checker and the socket tomorrow, but it'll be heavily windy, so I'll put it off until Tuesday to put on the master cylinder. The new O'Reilly master cylinder came with the threaded plugs and the instructions give a QR code for instructions on how to bleed it with the plugs, which is mentioned as the preferred method of bleeding. Bench bleeding is called the alternative method.

 

[franklin2]

I always still use the vise for the plug method. But if you mount the unit and use your foot to bleed it be careful. Those plugs are only plastic and it's easy to push too hard and pop them out. You might be able to just push the pedal with your hand.

Also, it might be hard to figure out when the master is properly bled. The booster may have play in it and you will not be able to detect when the master is not moving anymore.

 

[Cubey]

I always still use the vise for the plug method. But if you mount the unit and use your foot to bleed it be careful. Those plugs are only plastic and it's easy to push too hard and pop them out. You might be able to just push the pedal with your hand.

Also, it might be hard to figure out when the master is properly bled. The booster may have play in it and you will not be able to detect when the master is not moving anymore.

I might try making a little jig, with old small bits of scrap wood I have lying around, to hold the master cylinder. That way I can bleed it by hand, with a socket extension, used to push it.

 

[Cubey]

Is it just me, or is that still going down far without vacuum? Oh I did forget to attach the vacuum hose, but still.

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I bench bleed with the plugs until it seemed no more firmness could be had. It was more than 1/8" travel but oh well?

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The old fluid was cooked.

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Maybe it still has air? Maybe a hose is ballooning?

Edit: i probably didn't bleed the MC enough.

"Continue the procedure until the piston cannot be depressed more than 1/8 inch and no air bubbles are visible in the fluid reservoir."

Well, i guess I'll be doing it again, and bleeding the wheels again. Ugh. I was trying to hurry up and i guess I wasted two bottles of brake fluid now.

edit 2:
I ordered 3 more quarts of dot3 to the safe, plus a wix fuel filter from Walmart.. I'll have the fluid on Friday. I'll see about old fashioned bench bleeding it with it installed on the booster

 

[Cubey]

Well, I'm at a loss.

I took off the master cylinder and did the old fashioned bleeding procedure. Seemingly some air came out, but the piston still went in more than 1/8" when I removed the plastic bleeder fittings and put back the plugs. I have to use the plugs to install it, due to the radiator interference with the connection closer to the grill.

So, I put it back on and did some bleeding (maybe not enough?). But it seems like in rear, the clear hose is always full of air at the end with the bleeder screw after attempting to bleed. I dug out an old unused speed bleeder I had that was the right threads, but was more of a pointy tip. Dunno if that tip style matters, but I put it in on the right rear side. I think I might have bleed it finally, after trying the AliExpress one way valve again? It's hard to tell.

I tried bleeding the left rear with the regular bleed screw and it was acting the same way as the right.

I was fed up at that point, and I'm almost out of clean fluid, so I just put the battery back in and fired it up. It feels pretty much exactly like it did before.

So, now what? More bleeding?

It has this weight(?) based brake contraption on the rear. Nothing seen to be leaking from it though. It seems to be between the master cylinder and the rear brakes. Maybe you have to do something special with that? I don't know how to Google what it is, I'm just getting ads for disc brake kits.

Edit: oh it's a load sensing proportioning valve. Stock or aftermarket?

Edit 2: I just ordered a pair of Dorman speed bleeders that are listed as fitting this van, $14.76 for the set with tax/free shipping.

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[franklin2]

Are you bleeding the brake lines yourself? This can be very difficult to do. If you get some fancy bleeder valves, and have no one to help you, try putting some thread tape on the bleeder threads before installing them. Trying to bleed it by yourself using the bleeder and a hose/jar of fluid, or trying a one-way bleeder screw, the threads where the bleeder screws in tend to leak air. So you push the pedal down and push fluid/air out, and then when the pedal comes back up it sucks air in around the bleeder screw threads.

A helper pushing the pedal while you are opening/closing the bleeder is the best way. Even the vacuum pump on the bleeder method has the air leaking problem also.

 

[franklin2]

I am guessing the 1/8" or less travel is with the plastic plugs in place. I have found sometimes I have to tilt the master up and down to get all the air out. It takes awhile sometimes. Once you get the master bled, as long as you do not run out of fluid bleeding the rest of the system, you should be ok.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

oh it's a load sensing proportioning valve. Stock or aftermarket?

It's probably stock. It was probably an option. I've seen trucks with them and without them.

 

[Cubey]

Are you bleeding the brake lines yourself?

Yep. I've done it myself on the RV and F250 with good results. The '64 VW also, when I replaced the entire system, expect the hard lines. I personally changed the MC on the F250 but not the RV.

I use a Gator/Powerade bottle. Just use a drill bit, by hand, to drill a hole in the cap, a bit smaller than the vinyl tubing, so it grips and holds the hose in place firmly. That ensures the end of the hose is always submerged in fluid. Then make another tiny hole, so it can breath air out of the bottle, as you're bleeding the system. The bottles are good and thick, so they aren't likely to get a hole if working on rocky ground (such as here). Cheap too. You can throw it away when you're done with it, if you don't want to store it.

If you get some fancy bleeder valves, and have no one to help you, try putting some thread tape on the bleeder threads before installing them. Trying to bleed it by yourself using the bleeder and a hose/jar of fluid, or trying a one-way bleeder screw, the threads where the bleeder screws in tend to leak air.

The speed bleeders come with some kind of thread sealant already on them. I never let it run lower than half way empty. I check it after 5-7 pumps.

A helper pushing the pedal while you are opening/closing the bleeder is the best way. Even the vacuum pump on the bleeder method has the air leaking problem also.

I try not to bother people, if I can help it. I position the bottle so that I can see it from underneath, as I'm pressing the pedal by hand. The front seems to bleed well enough. The rear seems to be the problem. The rear is slightly uphill from the front. You can't really tell by looking. The brake fluid in the MC leans towards the front of the van just a bit, otherwise I wouldn't have known. Maybe that's part of the problem?

I am guessing the 1/8" or less travel is with the plastic plugs in place. I have found sometimes I have to tilt the master up and down to get all the air out. It takes awhile sometimes. Once you get the master bled, as long as you do not run out of fluid bleeding the rest of the system, you should be ok.

I have an old one of these kits, but I use clear tubing instead of the black tubing: https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-...ster-cylinder-bleeder-kit-17-piece/348463_0_0

I used that to bench bleed it, then I used the plastic plugs to install the MC on the booster, due to the radiator inferring with having a line/barb on the forward facing port of the MC.

After putting in the plugs, but before installing it on the booster, I checked the piston travel distance. It was no better than it was yesterday. I tried tilting it around, lightly tapping it on the bottom with the metal shaft of a larger sized screwdriver, etc.

 

[franklin2]

If you pump it with the plugs in place (by hand) you should see bubbles come up through the reservoir. Just keep pumping as long as you see bubbles. The stroke should get shorter and shorter. Once you can't get and travel out of it (Or 1/8" I guess) then it's fully bled.